AIDS as murder

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Tricky topic here.  AIDS and murder.  There is a trial going on in Ontario, Canada, in which a 52 year-old man is charged with murder in the deaths of two women.  The allegations are the man knowingly had unprotected sex with these women – and knowingly transmitted the HIV virus to them.  Subsequently, according to the prosecution, these women died from AIDS related causes.  And now he is standing trial for murder.

Tricky topic, indeed. There are lots of legal arguments that can be made – and are made – for criminal prosecutions against people who knowingly transmit HIV to their sexual partners. Depending on the set of circumstances and the specifics of any given case, prosecutors in the United States have wide latitude to bring criminal charges in this area.

According to Ms. Bebe Anderson at the Lambda Legal Defense Fund, there are a myriad of criminal statutes that specifically speak to HIV/AIDS in terms of criminal acts against others, ranging from a Class C misdemeanor in Alabama to felony charges that carry the same penalties as second-degree murder in Pennsylvania.

All these states and all their laws, and all the cases that could be prosecuted under them, are fact-specific. And that’s where this starts getting really, really messy.

As Lambda pointed out to me, one of the biggest problems in this area of prosecution is the absolute paucity of medical evidence that is presented to courts in these cases to establish the actual transmission of the HIV virus that caused a person’s AIDS and then his or her AIDS-related death. Moreover, more severe prosecution (under more severe criminal statutes) relies on intent. Proving someone has the intent to first infect someone with HIV, and then cause his or her death as a result of the AIDS that would come from the HIV infection, is pretty much impossible to establish.

Murder 1 or 2 requires intent on the part of the accused. Thus, one would have to prove that the accused intended to kill his partners via AIDS. On the other hand, manslaughter charges can be brought under reckless endangerment theories, in which the accused should have or did know that the likely outcome of his act would result in another person's death. This approach could, potentially, stick. Should it?

Do we prosecute caregivers on charges of neglect, or on criminal endangerment, or for child abuse, when adults feed their children fats and sugars to the point that the kids develop adult onset (Type II) diabetes by the age of ten? No. Should we? Hell no. And if we don’t in this type of scenario – a scenario where an adult, with absolute control over a minor is responsible for causing life-threatening medical harm – how can we in a situation involving sex between consenting adults that ends with the transmission of HIV? Don’t both parties to a sexual liaison have mutual responsibility to protect themselves to whatever degree is reasonable, especially given the facts of STD transmission in our society? Simply accepting the word of your sexual partner that he/she is not HIV infected does not, to me, seem to constitute a reasonable level of self-responsibility. And the failure of an adult to take reasonable steps to defend his or herself does not, seem to me, to warrant state action in loco parentis.

I am not a lawyer, just a guy trying to figure this stuff out. There is something truly immoral about a person who would knowingly infect another with HIV against that person’s knowledge or wishes. And, if there is a hell, I am sure that there is a nice warm room waiting for them. But morality is not the basis for criminal prosecutions. That is a slippery slope, which, I assure you, we don’t want to go sliding down.

Comments

[HT]

You bet it's murder.

Not just that, it's a gross violation of trust, self-respect, and RESPECT FOR OTHERS.

[Revrant]

Well, the fact of the matter is he knowingly transmitted the disease, when you knowingly run a stop sign and kill someone in a side collision, you're responsible for their death.

If for some reason that sign was obscured? You're at no fault, and with a disease as awful as this, it's hard to ignore that.

The real legal argument is really going to be coming from somewhere you didn't acknowledge, why these women were also negligent. Also why they never got tested, and also if they indeed got it specifically from him, have they tested their other unprotected partners? I didn't see anything about it.

So it will be interesting to see such a sad case unfold.

[Scott]

Whether or not a person should be criminally prosecuted for the act of knowingly transmitting the HIV virus is a decision for lawmakers but every person should remember that in this situation there is nothing to stop a person from persuing civil action against the person. Money may not mean anything in the end but it sends a message that it will not be tolerated.

[Eric]

It was a conscious decision.

It is premeditated.

It is murder.

[Brian]

It would be refreshing to have some information put out without all types of personal opinions laced into it. Does your opinion matter to me? Nope. Does the information? Yeah.

[Joe Moag]

Brian: If you want simple facts on the issues, feel free to click on the hot links in the article. This is an opinion-driven blogsite. Like the one you just posted.

[queerplanet]

And what? These women lived under a fucking rock somewhere and didn't know HIV existed?

You have sex with someone you can get all kinds of diseases.

Does this mean that if someone has the flu and has sex and that flu gets passed along and kills someone that this too is murder?

What about all the other diseases that are contagious and can cause death?

Life is risky. Sex is risky.

That needs to be taught OPENLY in schools. The current Sarah Palin school of sex education is the cause of most HIV infection. Ignorance spreads disease.

You want to charge someone for murder, charge the people who are against sex education.

[Joe Moag]

Queerplanet: Good points.

[Sheldon]

At worst, it's manslaughter (reckless disregard), but I'd argue it shouldn't have been charged any higher than negligent homicide. The Crown will have to prove that the defendant intended to cause death, rather than simply being selfish and reckless.

If I run a restaurant with a filthy kitchen and two of my patrons die of food poisoning, the Crown wouldn't charge me with murder. Same rules apply here.

[queerplanet]

No Sheldon it's not like that at all.

If you are going to have sex you should be educated about what can happen to you. You can die. Not only from HIV but many other diseases as well.

Now if you don't know that, and you can not or will not be educated, and still have sex, and then get sick and die, you can not blame every person who has a disease in the world.

People have diseases. Diseases can hurt and kill you.

If you prosecute this person for murder, then you must at least sue the person who gives you a bad cold and makes your take time off from work.

Disease is not a moral nor a legal fault.

You can't start condemning people and suing them for spreading diseases.

If that were the case then every person with herpes had better be careful or else you could be sued for damages.

Every person who has the flu and gives it to a person who eventually dies will be negligent.

The only differential here is sex. The idea that a person with a disease must stop having sex or be charged with a crime or sued is ludicrous.

Thus, it's better to approach it from another angle.

SEX EDUCATION!

[Josh from Regina]

I'm so sick of seeing our puritanical society react like this only because there's sex involved. If we were talking about diseases other than the sexually-transmitted ones, there would be no courts or police involved. Somehow we still think sex is bad. The truth is that everyone knows about HIV transmission. If you don't protect yourself it's your fault (with very few exceptions). Let's stop blaming other people and take responsibility for our own acts. You can't have unprotected sex with a stranger and then say, "He didn't tell me he was HIV+. It's his fault that I'm now positive." I mean, how childish and irresponsible. Maybe it's time we started taking responsibility for our actions. Let's grow up, please!

[J]

Comparing knowingly infecting someone with HIV to giving a child a cheeseburger is insulting. The parent giving the child fatty food is not necessarily harming them. There is still nutritional value to fatty foods. A person who has sex with someone while knowing they are HIV+ and does not inform the person is potentially sentencing them to death, and they have a responsibility to inform the person.

I think it should go further, if you are HIV+, have sex with someone, and do not inform them beforehand that you are positive, even if you use condoms, you should be jailed.

People have a right to know whether the person they are getting intimate with could potentially be killing them, and while everyone has a responsibility to protect themselves, the knowingly infected person has an obligation to society to keep their disease from proliferating. Especially a disease like HIV/AIDS, which is 100% lethal, and 100% preventable.

[queerplanet]

Fine J.

So the next time you have the flu be sure to tell EVERYONE you come into contact with because really, if someone dies from your germs, you should be jailed.

Oh and let's set up a system of justice where people get compensation for all manner of infections.

Did someone give you mono? Well that person owes you. And they should spend a few nights in jail.

Did someone give you herpes? Hey, I know, you deserve cash and that person should do community service.

If someone tell you they are HIV negative and you have unsafe sex with them, and then you get infected, you be one dumb ass motherfucker.

A. People lie for sex.
B. Not everyone knows they are infected until years later.

Sex education which includes these facts needs to be taught.

So what? You send this person with HIV to jail. Then what? Does that solve the problem? How?

[Greg D]

I had a great friend who repeatedly lied to me about his HIV status. We had sex on many occasions, and a degree of trust was developed. On a few occasions, my better judgement lapsed after some drinks, but only b/c he had repeatedly told me he was not HIV positive. I later found out he was positive, and it destroyed our friendship to say the least. I was very fortunate to not be infected. However, he might as well have been playing Russian roulete with a gun to my head while I was asleep. He put my life in his hands with no regard for my safety. If there were laws in place, I definitely would have sought legal action. Yes, it is my responsibility to protect myself. But it is every human's responsibility to tell the truth when someone's life is at stake.

[Nik]

OF COURSE! No one, whether they have HIV or not should be treated any differently. If you do the crime prepare to do the time. I know a number of people on here who are poz and have no intention of telling their hookup unless their asked. So...do your self a favour....ask them first!

[Wes]

What's next? How about prosecuting parents who send their kids to school with colds and flu viruses causing other kids to get sick. Let's call it attempted murder because some people do die from the flu. And if someone does die, life in prison because we all know that the flu has been killing people for centuries and those parents should have known better than to send their kids to school. Ridiculous! How about we spend our money or energies on finding cures for disease instead of prosecuting people who happen to get sick?

[Erik Wallace]

It is not murder unless you rape someone knowingly transmitting the disease to them. It is our own will to sleep with someone without protection. It is our own choice to trust in someone and that is endangerment on our part.

[Will]

Yes take self responsability.Learn to be informed.Ask the other, and as to go farther to gain :rolls eyes: trust. A recent or right away blood test.

I almost died of the flu, but it has screwed up almost all of my body organs.Heightened pain to some of them.

*As to main poster who posted this*

Have you ever heard of KILLERS? Well people like that should be put to death.I'm sick of them as many others.Going out of there way to infect others.There like walking diseases and should be killed, period.Are body kills things every day in ower body, should we say no? hell no, otherwise we wouldn't exist.We must control and kill, to save the masses, ower children, loved ones.

[Mikey]

This has probably been argued already, but I'm tired and I want to go to bed. I imagine this would be a very difficult case to charge. On the one hand is it Negligence or Intent? If someone knowingly puts HIV into your body, how is this different than putting a knife or a bullet into someone's body? While the person may not have thought, "I'm going to infect and kill this person," they didn't think, "Hey, I've got something potentially deadly in my pants, maybe I should keep it to myself!" That form of negligence in itself should be considered manslaughter.

Secondly, and at risk of sounding like big tobacco, can you prove that it was this man who infected them? Have you tested every single one of these person's partners? What about their partner's partners? How direct of a connection does it need to be to be considered murder? It could be argued that AIDS didn't kill the person, that they were in fact killed by an infection that their weakened immune system couldn't fight off.

Thirdly, without knowing the situation, it's hard to know what the circumstances of the sexual encounters were. Were the victims raped? Drugged? Had they taken every precaution they could? Would it have helped? If it was intent to kill, then probably not. Either way, in a case like this it's hard to blame the victim.

In conclusion, my opinion is that it is murder IF you can prove intent and that they did get the infection from that person. Otherwise, I would have to say manslaughter.

[The A]

Unless I missed something, the thing I find interesting is that it doesnt state whether or not the women knew in advance of this man's status. Thats point one, whether they did or not still doesnt convince me he should be tried for murder. People seem to think the only way you can get hiv is from another poz person, well the virus had to start somewhere right? Lets think about that first thing. Secondly if he wanted to murder them he wouldve outright done it, if he wanted them to suffer, there are plenty of ways to make that happen. This seems to me to be more of a filler for news to take people's minds away from the real issues of the world.

It appalls me how many people just fuck with no thought of the repercussions to it. Even when you use a condom you can still contract some pretty nasty diseases, If you think otherwise then you are one of the masses still completely ignorant to whats out there waiting for you. To the person who thinks that people with diseases should be killed off, well guess what, we wouldnt have any more human life on this planet, nor animals for that matter. Ill let you ponder on that one for while but seeing how rampant ignorance is I doubt you'd even get it.

Reality is shit happens, car accidents, getting the common cold, getting hiv, cancer, diabetes, syphillis, the clap, crabs, demetia, alzheimers, the list goes on, and on and on.

There's things that people can do to prevent all of these things, but guess what, they're still quite prevelent in the world today and from the way it looks not going anywhere. Its everyones responsibility to be accountable for their own actions. We are adults, The "I didnt Knows" and "Well yeah, buts" dont amount to anything and wont hold its weight against a grain of salt. Get over it and stop pointing the finger at everyone else, point it at yourself.

To everyone out there having random sex, protected or not, gay or straight, YOU ARE AT RISK FOR SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASES. THERE IS NO IF ANDS OR BUTS ABOUT IT!!!! I dont know how to make that any clearer, You do the deed, you've already signed a perverbial contract stating that you agree to all the terms and conditions. Didnt read the fine print? Tough shit for you thats you're own problem.

Now after that long rant I would like to finish off by saying that it is each of our responsibility to get tested regularly, have physical checkups with our Drs etc, be in the know and be honest. This isnt going to get any better until we all do that and accept each other regardless of the person's health. We are all still people and we all have to live together. Have a problem with this? Well newsflash for you, you are just another problem on the radar, the seperatist attitudes and the unneeded hate is what is causing all the problems in the world

Lastly the reason why some people dont go about revealing their status to everyone is because of the socail stigma attached to it. You helped create the monster thats attacking you and "killing" it isnt going to make it go away. Get in the know, Accept each other and stop being so damn judgemental. Think about how ur life would be if you had a life threatening illness and how isolated youd feel and how u may be treated...btw the medical field is making great strides for finding a cure. Instead of bashing people why not support the cause and help in the solution. Make the world a better place for everyone and in the end we will all reap the benefits. Peace and love

[Chad]

absolutely, if you are gay or you are str8 and you know you have AIDS it is your RESPONSIBILTY to disclose it. If you do not, you are guilty of murder. We have a case here in south dakota which a str8 guy did the same and never disclosed it and they convicted him. If you have it, you need to disclose it and let the person you are with decide. If you do not, you should go to prison. Gay or str8.

[Randy]

Yes - it absolutely is murder! I think it goes on a lot more than peopel are willing to believe. Sad, but true.

[James]

WTF goes through your mind "QueerPlanet". Yes if you have the flu, or mono, or herpes you should fucking tell someone. People protect themselves the best they can, but if you KNOW you have it and you DONT tell them... that makes you low, sick, and desperate. You dont die from herpes, the flu has some prevention, and mono is curable. HIV has NO cure! NO prevention shots, and besides for a prolonged life span.... YOU WILL DIE EVENTUALLY FROM IT. and last time I checked intentionally causing someone to die... was MURDER!

[Toby]

I can say from almost getting hiv from my partner of 11 years that it is a tricky. Issue.. I trusted him and he never told me that he thought he had it because of a test he had before we met.. I went through two years of testing and fear and anger knowing that he probably knew.. He also was sleeping around while he was telling me for years that he was faithful..I know I should have been less trusting but after the first 5 years and I went and got tested and he said he did but didn't.. so I took the risk and had unsafe sex. If he knew I would like to have at least charged him with reckless endangerment or something like that as I was not living under a rock and am very aware of stds.. I got lucky,, I still feel after all I went through tho that if anyone gets aids after the 80's they played with fire and got burned,, myself included.. I still don't feel sorry for guys or people that screw around and get it I honestly don't think our government should waste its money on a std.. You reap what you sow. plus the meds now make one look healthy and live longer, if death was the only option I guarantee that condom sales would skyrocket and maybe people would be more carefull and disease would eventually die out.. I don't know I guess I am a cruel guy but that is how I feel.. USE CONDOMSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Don't be a slut and trust only your own body!!!!!!!

[Toby]

On this though If one KNOWS AND DOESN"T TELL, THEY ARE KILLERS> IF I POKED SOMEONE WITH A NEEDLE WITH A DEADLY SUBSTANCE IN IT>> I WOULD GET CHARGED WITH ATTEMPTED MURDER>> YOUR DICK IS THAT NEEDLE>>>

[Toby]

I have to reiterate the above comment that I said that The government should not help pos people. That is not what I was trying to say.. I don't personally like the way the med program is going because it does extend the diseases life as well as the person.. I know it can stay in a person for in some cases 20 years.. or we think it can but with the whole dishonsesty thing in the sex world who really knows.. No I just think if there were not these alternative meds and death was still the only option that maybe people would be more carefull.. I don't know that is what i was trying to say is that we need to be more carefull and it seems AIDS ISN"T SCARY ENOUGH ANYMORE?? Ok well I hope that you all get what I am saying and don't think that I am a hate monger or anything like that??

[Web]

The woman commited suicide. They need to take responsibility for their lives, and body. Didn't the woman wonder why their boyfriend was taking a handful of pills a day??

[Web]

The woman commited suicide. They need to take responsibility for their lives, and body. Didn't the woman wonder why their boyfriend was taking a handful of pills a day??

[Todd]

It's inexcusable for an HIV positive person to have sex with a negative person without full disclosure.

However, proving that a specific HIV positive individual was the one who infected someone who was ostensibly NOT already positive seems like tricky business to me. If the negative person is going to have unprotected sex with the accused poz person, it's not unreasonable to assume that they'd have unprotected sex with anyone. And anyone could be carrying the same HIV strain as the accused "murderer".

[Scott]

Criminal? Murder? Culpability? yes to all of them. However one can not negate the responsibility or accountability of someone engaging in unsafe acts.

Does this gentleman in Ontario deserve to be on the stand for Murder? If someone intentionally poisons someone with Arsenic, and they die over a period of time as a direct result of said's actions, was that not intentional is that not liable? Of course it is.

However, this will raise barriers on both sides of the fence in the GLBT community. It can't help but. The HIV and AIDS activists will have a field day with this one. Discrimination against the HIV community!!!

25 - 28 years ago our community suffered a horrendous loss by people not knowing what caused the HIV Virus. Since the mid 80's - there have been tests to identify the HIV virus. That alone should say it all. When people knowingly engage in UNSAFE acts, be it drugs, sexual, lifestyle etc - then they have no recourse to come back to society to help them LIVE POSITIVELY, or find a CURE, to AIDS? hell yeah! To stupidity? Well that's taboo, we aren't supposed to talk about that.

The real crime, is that there are still men and women of all AGES, who are still CONTRACTING HIV!! That's truly what's criminal. If you read the latest statistics HIV is on the rise again in the Gay community - will people EVER learn.

And for the record, I am 44 and HIV negative, I have buried more friends, released more balloons, written countless donation checks, worked countless benefits, volunteered at hospices and yet to what end?

[Kevin]

Yes it is considered to be classified as murder. But there is only one caught to the murder charge that is not being considered here. It takes two to tango. The other party needs to be held responsible as well. It is a known fact that not everyone knows their HIV status. Common sense should kick in and tell you that you need to protect all of you. But if you got drunk or did drugs during the night of all out FUN, then that needs to be considered in the facts, because neither one is in the right frame of mind by then. Their judgment is impaired. And there needs to be considered a little leave way there in this matter. Both parties are to be held responsible for their actions. Now. If one of the the parties is not out of control of their mind or body and still choices to not take standard actions (Condoms) to protect both parties then they need to be held responsible for the aftermath that occurs.

[Derek]

First, in court, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt! If you can inject a reasonable doubt, then the accused cannot be found guilty (even though he may fully well be).

To expand on what Todd, I think, was trying to get at...

If this woman who died had unprotected sex with this poz guy, it could be argued in court that she has had sex with other men, who she also did not know their status.

Reasonable Doubt could be interjected here by suggesting that it's possible, very possible, that she already was infected a long time ago and that the disease had not manifested itself yet (dormant) and she tested Negative before this guy.

We do know that you could be infected today, and not turn up poz for many months to many years.

It could be argued that she may have already got infected and would have died anyway.

Also, it could be argued, that if this guy infected her and she had the same strain as he, that he should have died before her. While that isn't necessarily true as I've personally seen... my prev. partner appeared to had contracted HIV months before I met him, but he tested neg (I saw the test results myself) but "became" poz after we were together. In his case, he died within 3 years. Other I know that are poz at that same time, are still around and seemingly healthy (over 15 years now).

Yes, I am Neg. as we always played safe and there were no accidents.

So as in the above, while I do believe that intentionally infecting someone is no different than the needle example above, it's hard to prove that THIS person or THAT person was THE one to infect.

One's sexual history WILL come into play here.

COME ON PEOPLE, PLAY SAFE. The reality is, you DO NOT REALLY know the other person's status, EVEN IF they have just tested NEG!

Testing NEG does NOT mean a person IS neg... if just means that it's not showing up yet (assuming that one is infected).

The other reality is, most of us know or have a good idea if we are neg or poz, just by our very behaviour.

The problem is, when a nice cock is involved, it's difficult for some to control themselves and make stupid choices.

[Anthony Look]

In California the two deaths would automatically get him the death penalty.
I am against the death penalty, and perhaps that would be too lenient; as compared to slowly dying from AIDS as these woman suffered.

[Your_Fear]

It is murder and immoral.

[Derek]

As mentioned in the article every situation/case is different. If intent can be proven the yes it is Murder and should be prosecuted as such. But there are a few things I feel others are overlooking. Can they prove the HIV virus of the decedant came from the defendant? If the decedant had unprotected sex with one person it is arguable they had unprotected sex and exposure to the virus from many sources. It is nearly impossible to prove a motive as well as prove the source of the virus which is most likely why we have not seen more cases likes this.

On a related topic. This is another example I see of today's society blaming others instead of taking responsiblity for ones own actions. I am a firm believer that for every one of my actions there is a reaction. I have a choice when being intimate with someone to take preventative measures to protect myself from all of the communicable diseases - not limited to HIV. In my opinion it is time society stops blaming others and taking responsibility for our actions which brought about the reactions.

[Justin]

I have a friend that knew someone who was HIV possitive. he was a real mess. into drugs, prostitution, porn and he knowingly infected people with hiv cause he felt if he has it so should everyone else. well luckily years later he got his life together. off the drugs, a very good paying job, a commited monogomas relationship and sent aplogies to all the people he infected. but this man its just sad

[Sheldon]

People keep referring to poisons and needles. If I shoot you with a gun or stab you with a knife, and you die, but the prosecution can't prove that I intended to kill you, the worst thing I'd be convicted of is MANSLAUGHTER, not murder. Yes, I know knives are dangerous. Yes, bullets are deadly. But if, we were fighting and I reached for a knife or a gun, it's no different than if we were in a fistfight, or I used a rock or a bottle and struck you and you died.

Just because unsafe sex with a HIV+ can lead to a deadly infection, does not prove that the HIV+ person INTENDED to kill the dead guy.

I doubt seriously the prosecution will be able to sustain a MURDER conviction.

As I said earlier, NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE, which is a degree of culpability lower than manslaughter, is the more appropriate criminal charge, if one is appropriate at all. For manslaughter, the prosecution would have to prove malice. Most likely, the worst they could prove is negligence. Even then, as someone pointed out, the defense could raise reasonable doubt by saying the defendant did indeed disclose his HIV status and the women chose to have sex with him anyway. The women are dead. Who's to argue that he didn't disclose?

[Ralph]

Hummmm, Sheldon is a high priced lawyer examining every detail and then running around the question.

If people will remember back in the early 1990s when that Florida man was convicted of murder for "knowingly" transmitting HIV to others only because he himself was infected in the same manner. This type of case would be "you wronged me so I going to take down as many as I can!"

Can also call it a "vicious circle."

Anyway, whichever way people think it will go, "Thou Shall Not Kill" is one commandment we "should" all follow!

[Henry L.]

I am perscompsvc@yahoo.com and my name is Henry L.

I would never report anyone for giving me HIV. Hell I even want the bug so I never have to worry about it anymore.

Poz men is the best.

I want to be pozz'd.

[Justin]

You cannot legislate morality. It never works. It is not enforceable and it is not the role of our government to do so.

You can make many comparisons of risk such as the flu. The reality is if you get the flu you are most likely going to live to tell about it. You may likely even live to be exposed to it yet again. It is a risk in life. Much the same, unprotected sex is a risk. There is a risk of being exposed to may diseases such as HIV. The person you are having sex may or may not even know that they are exposing you to a disease. They may or may not be able to tell you this. They may or may not even be aware that they have been a victim of the disease themself.
HIV is not an absolute death sentence. The irresponsible unprotected sex these women (and many others this very minute) engage in lead to them becoming infected with hiv. The disregard for their body and personal well being may or may not have been relived when it came time for taking care of their HIV infected body. Perhaps this lead to opportunistic infections that could have been avoided but ultimately lead to their death. It is possible (based on the information in the article) that these women had the same careless disregard for other people as they had for themselves and actually lived a life that infected others. The victim become the villan.
With these thoughts in mind I simply ask you, If you change lanes and side swipe a doctors Corvette, you will probably have to pay for the damage to his property. But if he then goes home and becomes depressed about the loss of his car and shoots himself, is this murder?

HIV is the Villan. It is a disease. The victims of this disease are not villans, but they all have the same responsibilities...taking better care and living more responsibly.

[Mark]

After reading this article, I have only one question. How do we know that this man is the one that gave the woman HIV? She could already had HIV and didn't know it for it was in it's rest state and then came to the surface sometime after having sex with my man that is now charged with her death. I do believe that a new charge/or new law should be formed in this country to caught and put them away for a very long time.

[Talon]

while they have us looking at this, what's going on behind the curtain.

search: gary null (popovic's research papers "doctored" by gallo)

[Caleb]

I hope he gets the death sentence, pig.

[draegonseed]

Being a 23 year survivor of HIV let me say ....yes he should have told ....yes the women should have ask...yes everyone should practice safe sex regardless unless you are absolutly sure neither of you are pos. With regard to this case unless the man had sex with these women with the intent to infect and kill them with hiv/aids I don't see how you can call it murder.....negligent homicide...yes but murder.... I don't think so.

For all of you who think HIV is certain death .....you need to better educate yourself. like diabetes ....with proper medical care and a health lifestyle....your only gonna die from old age ....or an accident.

[Rallathil]

It is a matter of morality and just being a decent human being in being HONEST about your HIV status. It boggles my mind how so many guys in my city(Pittsburgh) run around blatantly lying about their hiv status. Case in point, there is a guy that believes because his viral load in undetectable that he doesn't have to tell people his true hiv status because it isn't their business. WTF! That kind of mentality is just as warped as someone poz running around having sex with people unprotected.

This man had a responsibility to those two women to tell him of his status regardless of them not insisting he use condoms. He should be charged with murder in both cases. But, let's not turn every responsible person with hiv into villains only those bastards that think they don't have share their status because it doesn't suit their needs. DICK ISN'T WORTH DYING FOR!

[Kuriin]

It's awful that he would knowingly do it; but as the article said, the sex between the two were between TWO CONSENTING adults. The female could've worn a vaginal condom or forced the male to have a condom. Now, if the female asked specifically if the male has HIV/AIDs and he denies, then yes, there is reckless endangerment. Heck, it could even be an intent to murder.

[Somone who's been there]

You people who defend this man (if he is proven guilty) are just as sick as him. Your logic makes as much sense as when Native American were given blankets infected with small pox, and then saying, "Well shit happens - dirty blankets are risky. Teaches you for not disinfecting your blankets." Coming from being in a relationship with an ex who was positive for 6+ years at the time and never said anything until I seroconverted, I do not take this issue lightly. I live in the great state of Minnesota where there are no disclosure laws to protect their citizens. Good for Canada! A country progressive enough to have legal gay marriage and make intentional HIV infection a capital crime. I say Crucify the bastard (if he is guilty). It was no different than a loaded gun because his intent was downright EVIL...

[lee]

What is interesting is the focus of this is on the man who allegedly infected these women, i say allegedly because it isnt 100% possible prove that the virus they were carrying originated with this man (it does mutate after all),but what about this man? are the courts willing to go after the person who infected him? and the person who infected that person and so on. If so then all the lawyers on the planet would be rubbing their hands together with glee because there is over 33 million cases out there for them to be getting into! although this would leave time for other forms of prosecution, May i remind you all that HIV is a global pandemic! not an isolated incident. people suffering from this chronic illness don't ask for it they generally don't wish it on others and have to live with the stigma of it every day of their lives. It is tragic that these women have died because of being infected by this killer virus as it is also tragic that countless millions have succumbed before them and im sure countless millions will after them. We are all responsible for our own personal safety and as such should'nt the focus be on the larger picture of finding a cure for this killer, because after all a virus doesnt recognise borders colour creed sexual preference or even morality! And also there is such a thing as PEP which is available for those who think they may have been exposed to HIV, but i guess knowing these things is not as important as having a modern day witch hunt and focusing on somone else for our own uneducated short comings.
The sad fact is we all need to take resposibilty for ourselves and stop blaming other people for our mistakes

[Shane]

Anyone who knowingly passes on HIV/AIDS deserve to be prosecuted. I can't really speak to the specific severity of the charges, but they should be tough. Whether or not intent to murder can be proved, involuntary manslaughter still sticks.

[tjwedo2008]

I live in Tijuana mx, and have seen way to many young people over here living and dying with HIV/AIDS. Alot of them tell me that they got it from American men that came over from the states. Its murder to me these men dont have any respect for themselves or for anyone else as long as they get the satisfaction of being with a young guy. There doesnt seem to be enough info here about preotection but I make it my business to tell all my friends to make sure they wrap it up.. NO GLOVE NO LOVE