CA Gay Marriage Foes: "Schwarzenegger and Atty General 'Can't Be Counted On'"

Just as California Attorney General Jerry Brown was urging the state's highest court to hear legal challenges to Proposition 8  with the aim of having the gay-marriage issue "promptly resolved," the authors of Prop 8 issued a statement that expressed wariness of state leaders' handling of the issue.

"[Attorney General Jerry Brown] has vigorously opposed Proposition 8 and cannot be counted on to vigorously defend the measure," proponents of the anti-gay-marriage initiative said in a press release, which went on to state, " Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger similarly cannot be counted on to defend the People's vote since he has already publicly urged the Supreme Court to invalidate Proposition 8."

Concerns abound on both sides of Prop 8 -- the California measure passed by voters on November 4 overturning by a narrow margin the state Supreme Court's ruling that gave same-sex couples in the state the right to marry. Questions -- such as whether the thousands of same-sex couples who have wed in California since the Supreme Court's decision earlier in 2007 are still recognized as being legally married, and whether same-sex couples can still marry in the state until the Supreme Court makes its ruling --  are still on the table, and will have to be addressed by Brown and the Court. Both sides of the issue hope these decisions will come swiftly -- and in their favor.

Comments

[Jim Gilmore]

I think prop 8 needs to be thrown out; it was a proposal that really negates the separation of church and state. I don't think politics and religion mix.

Are view or take in religion varies from individual to individual regarding the definition of marriage.

I do not think it is the right of hypocritical church going people can decide the fate of marriage or union between two people who want the same legal rights and vows and oath that heterosexual couples enjoy everyday.

[mfarrell]

The courts MUST protect us, "We the people", it is that simple.

[Glenn Lennox]

Asking a Republican to treat gay people with respect is the same as asking a Nazi to treat a Jewish person with respect.
Do NOT trust them EVER.

[sonofasooner]

I think Prop 8 should never have even come up, but most of us here agree that gays and lesbians should have the same rights as heterosexuals. My concern is with the hate on our side of the fence. We point fingers and say that church goers are haters, that they are horrible people (not in this post, but comments on other posts on this site), etc. Some then point fingers and compare Republicans to Nazis. That is insulting and rather foolish on many levels. Not all Republicans are Bible-beating heterosexuals. I often vote Republican and I am gay. I think it is ignorant to vote on one issue and disregard the whole. I know many gay Republicans and many straight Republicans that want to see homosexuals with the right to marry. While it is true that some Republicans are opposed to same-sex marriage I would like to point out that there are some Democrats that oppose it as well (just look at the stats on who voted for/against Prop 8). Hateful accusations never solved anything.

[rsbludude]

Asking a Republican to treat gay people with respect IS NOT like asking a Nazi the to treat a Jewish person with respect. I have Republican friends who have been more supportive than some of Democratic friends. And then there's the Log Cabin Republicans... generalizing, derogatory statements and sentiments are what lead to divided communities and that's the last thing we need right now.

[Jordan B.]

"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."

-Abraham Lincoln

Keep in mind that if we were completely democratic, slavery would still be legal today and the country would be split in two. When you're asking to take away the rights of others, you shouldn't get to have a voice. Period.

It's nice to see that the government of California understands this, even if the people do not. I'm guessing that the people who voted for it are also responsible for the 50% drop out rate in California. Heh.

[MJohnson]

It's absurd to me that a group of tax paying US citizen civil rights should be up for a popular vote. Whatever happen to the idea of separation between church and state?

[John K.]

Our fundamental right to marry is much more important than your right to vote on this issue. It's that simple. Unlike in religious freedom v. gay marriage, in this instance the two rights really are zero-sum, and ours is more important.

[Obama bin Lyin']

I can't believe Obama's going to close down Guantanamo and let the terrorists go back to Afghanistan so they can regroup

[gay union is marriage]

I can't believe gays are attacking little old ladies who agree with prop 8 and trespassing into churches throwing flyers around and making out in front of parishoners. If that were turned around and church goers were storming a gay club, drag show or Aids fundraiser you guys would FREAK! You want freedom of speech and expression yet don't like the democratic process that voted down gay marriage before a few liberal judges passed it anyway then REvoted on banning it with prop 8. Gay marriage shouldn't have been passed in CA in the first place! The majority of people didn't want it! Get over it! And for those of you attacking Republicans still, most Obama/Democratic voters voted YES on prop 8! 70% or more of blacks and hispanics!
Marriage is a religious ceremony anyway--it was created by the Church/Synagogue long ago and meant for a man and woman--- you have gay unions, which is basically gay "marriage" without the religious context. Many of you don't like Judeo-Christian beliefs and those who attend so why do you want to take their ceremony away? Why do you want to spit on what the Bible says? A for those who say unions aren't the same as marriage, then fight for an amendment to correct what's different with a union vs. marriage --otherwise quit bitching! It's bad enough you fags parade around as nuns and commit blasphemy in churches and sell your bodies on the streets of SF doing drugs in front of the police stations....SF is a nasty hedonistic Liberal mess...so fucked up cops there don't even fight crime anymore...

[Chemosh]

"Little old ladies" can be just as bigoted as a young white skinhead so what is your point?
Church's regularly attack, preach, hand out flyers with all kinds of hate, FRED PHELPS!, protest gay pride parade, collect money for Prop 8 and preach vile stuff against gays in gay neighborhoods. So what is your point again? Looks to me that they are just getting what they give. But apparently Mormons think they should be able to play politics and be tax free. Who knows maybe they will think they can go kill gays too as they did to other outsiders in the Mountain Meadows Massacre (1857).
When marriage is defined by the state I totally agree. All are civil unions. But the religious and conservatives don't see it that way. They want the term marriage used because they have always been able to have their way. There is no such thing as "separate but equal"

For me I do not attack Republicans although as a party they made some big money contributions. The Democrats and Libertarians didn't in the YES on Prop 8. And it was religious conservative blacks and Hispanics that voted with the Mormons and other religious fanatics to stem the secular rights of another minority. So they hate other minorities too ..BIG SUPRISE. Homophobia is not limited to Conservative white folks.

Last time I looked I think the Constitution was suppose to keep some distance between the religious and the secular. But I do appreciate your honesty in recognizing that the Christians cannot seperate civil marriage from religious marriage. Christians expect their priveledge to dictate dogma to the state.
And will religious conservatives ever get tired of their idiotic rantings about SF? If it is a hedonistic liberal mess then why is it one of the highest priced places to live in the USA? Because it is so popular! Probably because all the Conservative nut jobs are at a minimum there.

[Patrick]

Received from an attorney (via email)worth reading as the fight for the right of gays and lesbians continues.

The California Supreme Court did in fact rule, for the first time, that Gays are not just another minority group, but a “suspect class” of minority.

This status has only previously been extended to race, sex, and religious minorities. This means that discrimination against a “suspect class” triggers “Strict Scrutiny” on the part of the courts, and this analysis requires the government to come up with a “compelling state reason” for the discrimination.

Historically, once a minority group has attained status as a “suspect class” discrimination against it has always been prohibited because the government has never been able to come up with a “compelling state reason” for the discrimination.

This analysis will survive Proposition 8. Gays are still a suspect class and the government will have to come up with a compelling state reason to justify denying them fundamental rights including marriage.

This means several things; The court may rule that the California Constitution cannot be amended to take away fundamental rights from a suspect class by a simple majority vote. They may well decode that a constitutional convention is required to take away fundamental rights. This requires a two-thirds vote of the state legislature.

A writ has already been filed by a collection of civil right’s lawyers
(moi included) seeking to obtain such a ruling. If so, the election could be tossed out and the homophobes left with having to get two-thirds of the legislature to agree to a constitutional convention.

Lots of luck.

This would mirror the Federal Constitution which cannot be amended without two-thirds vote of both houses of Congress plus ratification by three-quarters of all the state legislatures.

As you recall, the last gasp of the Federal Religious Right attempted such an amendment in Congress on this very issue and they failed to get even a simply majority of either the House or the Senate let alone a two-thirds majority.

So the argument goes: California’s Constitution must reflect the Federal one. It can only be amended to take away fundamental rights by a Constitutional Convention which requires two-thirds of the state legislature.

This battle is far from over.

[Lord Zeus Devion Bynx]

i do agree with that the prop 8 need to go cuz whatever you are doing Arnold you are going to be terminated and i dont mean as a life threaten way no way I mean you need to keep religion and politics out of your mind and just get along with others and plus you will never know you have met alot of gay fans cuz of your movies and i am one too not just mean that you are attractive no it means we like your movies you may need to go to china and go learn how to enjoy your time and have some fun and that is what you need to do worry about yourself and dont worry about other people say just let them do what they deserve and my motto is about the question of love? "live life to your own fullest and you will succeed better in life and what you have achieved in your own life."
and also the proverbs of Lord Confucious: Life is a road that we take and it starts as a seed, the seed planted in the ground, the tears from heaven has fallen to the ground where the seed has been plant, and the next day the sun came out to show it love to the seed, then about a week later the seed began to sprout,when the seed grew and grew and it grew into a beautiful mandrian orange which is the giver of life as we grew in love by water and by the sun for they have caress there love to the seed to turn it to a mandrain orange tree. Arnold if I were you I would step down from being a gornvernor. You do not deserve to rule california. I for one does not need this job and it doesnt make me wiser to have me as a governor no thanks I am 27 years old and I am not ready to take that risk

[Darrell B.]

I am a proud gay american myself who has 4 childeren of my own from a previous marriage...thank god we all have our freedom of speech and all. I'm all for that but i believe that marriage is a very sacred thing between a MAN and a WOMAN. I do not believe that it is meant for same sex couples to be married. All the gay people need to realize ..including myself that same sex marriage wass never spoken of in the bible, and for all you gay people that doesn't belive in the bible...well you will know the truth one day is all.I believe marriage is only meant to be between a man and a woman...you do know that plumbing only runs one way to produce what it is meant to do.

[Christopher™]

Setting our feelings aside for the moment, it will take a strong legal argument to invalidate Prop 8. And the case that Prop 8 is a revision to the CA constitution--rather than a true amendment--is pretty compelling.

The court refused to hear this very argument earlier, but not on its merits. Instead, they wanted to address it only if the amendment actually passed. Because Prop 8 creates a internal conflict within the constitution (gays are equal but they're not), this has to be settled at some point by the CA supreme court.

My hope is that the court will invalidate Prop 8 on this basis, which will then send it to the CA legislature. It would require a 2/3 vote of approval by the legislature before a revision could be placed on the ballot as another initiative.

Of course, the other side will bitch and moan, claiming the "people's rights" were violated, but that's not true at all. Voters could still decide this, as long as 2/3 of the legislature allowed it. So it would be up to the anti-gay forces to convince a heavily Democratic legislature to do so. I doubt they'd be very successful. It's a losing issue now.

I'm hoping that things work out this way. We'll see.

[Bruno Kravitz]

crawl back under your rock, darrell b. try a more convincing cover next time you want to come here and spew your fundamentalist garbage.

[Derrick]

I think the USA needs to get with the times. We are all human and bleed the same blood. I. being Canadian have always thought that the USA has lots of Pride in their country and have the odd time been so moved by that pride wished I was an American. But I then think of how they treat their fellow man and think thank god I live in a free Country. Canada Rocks. I AM CANADIAN and I AM GAY

[John]

I take issue with Glenn Lennox, I am Gay, and a Republican, I will never vote for a Liberal, that said, Prop 8 is just plain wrong. The Church, can't explain IN DETAIL why 2 people that love each other can't be married. First off it was a last ditch effort to stop Gay Marriage, while it has for the moment done that, it won't nullify those that have gotten married. Gay Marriage is leagal in California, was made so June 16 or 17, 2008, it's on the books as such. Very shortly Prop 8 will be thrown out, the other part of it is to be made an Amendment to the California State Constitution, well folks that won't happen, you may ask why, it is because it is segratetive, it doesn't pass scrutiny, and therefore won't make as an Amendment, Prop 8 hopefully will just be thrown out, those dog gone Mormons, and those silly Catholic's, stay out of politics please, we have enough problem's with the Clinton's let alone you Church type's sheeeesh.

[John T]

The Ultra-Conservative,Evangelical,Far Right Wing of the Republican Party has, for a long time, beat the drum for a Constitutional Amendment banning Gay marriage in this country. It may be true that there are Republicans that favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to wed, but they are most certainly few and far between. The Religious Right has been the driving force to define marriage as they see fit, while Websters defines marriage as 1 "the state of being married" 2 "a wedding ceremony and attendant festivities" 3 "a close union". Nowhere in that definition does it allude to marriage being between one man and one woman. The CHURCH through very thorough mind control of its' members and brainwashing of the parisheners has been able to convince millions that the Bible is the defining word on the subject. Well folks, how about the millions of people in this country, good God loving--not God fearing--people that don't believe that this country of free people should be ruled by the CHURCH. The most basic History of this country revolves around the founders that came to this continent to escape the rule of the Church of England and its' persecution of anyone that thought the church was too powerful in the government. Our problem in this country today isn't how to define marriage, it's already defined in the dictionary, it's the intrusion of the Church in our Government. It is fact, the Ultra-Conservative, Right wingers of Republicn, not Democrat, party are driving the Anti-marriage movement against Gay and Lesbian men and women. Pretty simple, check how your elected officials voted on gay rights issues and see what party they belong too. Just get the Church out of our Government and keep it out!!

[chuck]

Time's up........we need to pass an ammendment to the US constitution TAXING the churches and removing their elite status. They have no rights if they insist on denying them to other law abiding tax paying citizens. Thier leaders delusional absolute power has corrupted their own congragations absolutely.

[Gay Union is NOT Marriage]

To: Gay Union is Marriage. OH, where do we begin? Lets start with this comment.

“Marriage is a religious ceremony anyway--it was created by the Church/Synagogue long ago.” Well, to start, no, this is not correct. It has been taken over by religious groups, it did not start there.

But let us assume you are correct, and marriage is indeed a religious ceremony. The US constitution, the document that governs this country, not the Bible, says that government shall not endorse any religion. By passing laws recognizing “Marriage”, a religious ceremony, you have just violated the US Constitution. Further, by giving “special rights” to those who follow this religious belief, you have once again violated the Constitution, and endorsed a religious institution. If we are going to follow your defense of these laws, we have just found cause to invalidate every single one of these laws passed. We have also found cause to invalidate every single law that gives any rights to married parties, such as inheritance rights, Social Security benefits, and on and on.

Comment #2: “you have gay unions, which is basically gay "marriage" without the religious context.” Let me start off by referring your part about “without the religious context” to the comments above. Are we again violating the Constitution by endorsing that “religious context”? Now moving on to the rest of that comment.

First question, what federal law grants these “gay unions” and endorsed their equal rights? There are many federal rights that are granted to people who follow your “religious ceremony” that are not granted to people who follow other unions. Social Security for one. (But that is one of those socialist programs you are afraid of. I cant wait for all your “church going” friends to lose their Social Security checks and start screaming.) There are many other federal rights that are only granted to those who follow your “religious ceremony”, and are therefore unconstitutional under your argument. Let us start taking them all away and see the protest from your church going friends.

Second question: What states allow these equal rights, and what states actually have laws to invalidate these rights? I am sure your closed mind will not have an answer for that. Well, we can start with the fact that many states DO NOT have gay unions, and in fact, some have passed laws that clearly state anything other than marriage is not legal. (See Florida’s Amendment 2). But, even if we do write laws granting these rights under “gay unions”, once again we have violated the US Constitution. The Supreme Court has ruled that separate but equal is not valid, that all parties must be given the same rights under the same laws. This does not just hold for black vs white, but in all cases.

Comment #3: “If that were turned around and church goers were storming a gay club, drag show or Aids fundraiser you guys would FREAK!” Well, we did allow YOU to voice your opinion in this blog. Did anyone freak and say you right wing hypocrites should not be allowed to comment on a GAY blog? No, we allowed you to post your view point, something the church refuses to do. When was the last time you heard your minister express a political opinion and allow someone equal time to express an opposing view point? NEVER!!! Churches do not allow opposing view points. They lead by fear and say it is bad to listen to another opinion, or question the word of “God”, which is really just the word of the minister on duty. Now, let us get back to the storming done by your fellow church goers.

Your friendly “church goers” have indeed stormed into gay clubs and events, and continue to do so. I can give you some local examples from where I live. An annual gay pride event, where anti gay protesters attend every year. They not only attempt to stop all speeches with their bull horns blaring, they have used a banner the same size as the width of the road to block the parade, and to block attendees from walking down the public street, for which they have been granted a permit to use. They have even used this banner to attempt to move gay people off the street. Then there are the many times they have indeed come into gay clubs and tried to recruit gay people to “be saved”. There is the case where they rented a billboard, located in the parking lot of a gay club, to advertise their “therapy” to fix gay people. There are the many funerals that your religious friends have protested all because they don’t like gay people. There is Gay Day at Disney World, where they have come onto private property and confronted gay people, all in the hopes of inciting a riot, so they can show how the religious groups were innocent, trying to give their opinions, and were “attacked” by these horrible gays.

So you can clearly see where your “church goers” have indeed attempted to come into the gay world to voice their opinions. Why should gay people not protest outside a church? This is, after all, where your message of hate and intolerance is being spread. OH, wait, that’s not hate, that’s the “word of God”. Because we know Jesus would not want gay people around him.

Now, for one more of your comments. “A for those who say unions aren't the same as marriage, then fight for an amendment to correct what's different with a union vs. marriage.” The gay community is fighting for their rights, just as you say. We are fighting to end your misguided belief that separate but equal is ok. We are fighting to end YOUR special rights. We are fighting to keep the Constitution of the United States of America alive and well, and not allowing it to be taken over by people who want to use the Bible to spread their version of hate and discrimination. Gay people are not fighting to stop religious institutions from continuing to marry who they want, they are simply asking for the government, not the church, to give them equal rights. This has nothing to do with the church or their beliefs. Nobody is going to go into your church and force you to be gay, or have sex with someone of the same sex.

If “marriage” is to be considered a religious ceremony first, then let the government get out of the marriage business, and into the “Civil Union” business, and issue the same “Civil Union” license to all parties.

[Aaron]

i think we should go with prop 8, but start a prop something else banning heterosexual divorce, since marriage is holy and all being only between a man and a woman.. that makes sense, we can just watch heterosexuals miserably commit suicide in the streets over torn marriages and all the angst that would come with knowing, they can never get out.

[MarkF]

Opposing "homosexual marriage" is NOT imposing religion on people. Taking drugs is a sin. Taking illegal drugs is also a crime. Incest is a sin. Incest is also a crime. Murder is a sin. Murder is also a crime. Why aren't these cited as examples of religion taking away the freedom of the people?

It's interesting how the homosexual propagandists say that Prop 8 passed by a "narrow" margin (4%, or 500,000 votes) but the Secular Messiah won in "landslide" (5%). The real narrow margin was the corrupt State Supreme court who decided all this by one vote.

And what is never mentioned on this accursed site is that homosexuality is a destructive behavior, that is is linked with higher rates of all sorts of pathologies from suicide, depression, drug and alcohol abuse, antisocial behavior, domestic abuse and promiscuity, to child abuse, incest, pornography and general depravity and unhappiness. Visitors of this site should be familiar with this. This is the site after all where the busiest chat room is the incestuous "Dad/Son" room, where the "safe sex" room is always empty and where fully half the rooms or more are given over to pathological junk like "wet and messy" (for those into piss and shit), "humiliation", "rough role play" and others. Face it, homosexuality is pathological. It's sick. It leads no where. It's an endless rabbit hole of illusions and confused people.

[Michael Therrien]

This Prop 8 is in direct violation of the Equal Protection clause in the California Constitution. It is discrimination via sexual orientation even if 95% of the people had voted for Prop 8 it would still require changing the constitution of California to become law.

While I agree that there was misconduct in some churches financing political measures in violation of 501c3 laws (tax free church's) That argument does little to actually get the proposition removed. the objective should be two fold. One to insure that these church organizations are not allowed to engage in political activity. And second demand that the California constitutional right of equal protection be applied.

[JessPhitmen]

Perhaps the next time the gay community is prancing in the streets half or nearly all naked, and complaining that being busted for sex in public restrooms is entrapment, and should be a right for some, youll think back as to how it negatively affected the straight voter as they approached the ballot box.

[Andrew]

You want to have a voice in political arena? Then pay taxes! People don't seem to be grasping the point that these religious institutions are TAX FREE. They pay ZERO in taxes and yet control a sizable portion of our govt. Gay men and women face fiscal burdens to fund heterosexual marriage that is nothing short of blatant discrimination. If you are married 3 days and your spouse dies you get to collect his/her social security, if you are gay and together for 50 years and your partner/spouse dies, you don't get a dime. Why it is so hard for people to grasp the discrimination fiscally, completely outside the religious bull that is used to argue against gay marriage, mystifies me daily.

[Tokar]

one problem i see with American ballot questions is the wording. vote YES so there will be NO gay marriage. vote NO so there will be gay marriage. why is it that the people that ask the questions can't ask the proper questions? YES for gay marriage and NO if not. simple enough. the wording of the questions makes a big difference in the outcome when taking in the intelligence and awareness of the issues of some of the voters.
And on a side note, since Gays in California are now NOT equal citizens, then what do you think would happen if the gay population and supporters, withheld their income taxes, stopped frivolous purchases, and stopped traveling? although i want to visit California i will not go where i am considered a second class person. you've lost my tourist dollars, and many of them.
THE LOSS OF PROP 8 IN CALIFORNIA EXPLAINS THE INCREASE IN THE INTEREST OF AMERICAN GAYS TO MOVE TO CANADA. COME ON UP. bring your money, your life and your intelligence. work hard, and prosper.
as Gov Arnie says in commercials for California - "When can you start?" Hope to see you soon.

[tokar]

as for all those religious zealots out there, even the bible discriminates against gay men but even states it is OK for lesbians to have same sex relations. grab a bible (maybe you have to go to a library or a church, heaven forbid) and look up this passage.
Leviticus 18 - 22
"thou shalt not lay with man as with woman."
as i read that it says - as a man i can't lie with another man, but as a woman i can't lie with a man. does this confuse you as well?

[christopher beaver]

it just really upsets me that someone who is from another country, has been given all of the rights of anyone in our country would not think for a moment that maybe someone who is gay should get the same rights as he would.
terminate him.

[cocomin]

I have a question for the proponents of gay marriage: Have you actually considered what you are asking for with regards to a right to 'marry'? Are you fully ready to accept all the challenges and legalities that are attached to 'marriage', in terms of estate, taxes, property, and God knows what else? To tell you the truth, I am not an advocate of gay marriage as a gay man myself. I think we have bigger issues as a society to solve, such as the question of heterosexual marriage. What makes you think that we can do better in marriage than the heteros? Their divorce rate is about what, 53% give or take a few % points? As a result, we have out-of-control kids from broken homes, some of whom end up in jail or dead. We have an abnormal number of people on welfare (Public Assistance for you PC people...) which WE'RE helping to pay for. What do you really thing 'marriage' is going to accomplish? What about the AIDS rate in our community? How can we be responsible in marriage when many in this community are sexually irresponsible? Think the two aren't linked? If 'gay rights' are to be, I think we would be better served using Millicent Fawcet's model of 'incremental consumption' of these rights - first and foremost we have to prove to ourselves that we can exercise these rights in good faith and show that we are good citizens. We do ourselves a disservice by the 'all or nothing' mentality when we're not the ones holding the cards... if we want to play to win, we eventually have to play by their rules. I'm in no way an advocate of subjugation (but you can't deny that is what is happening at the moment), but rights to ANY minority have NEVER just been handed out like candy by the white, straight man. If you know anything about history, you'd know that to be true.

Just some things to think about...

[Paul Caubet]

If this reaches the US Supreme Court, it's likely the Justices will see fit to rule in favor of a permanent resolve to the embroilment of litigious confusion that's disrupting the nation. After all, once it becomes a federal case, it will be judiciously defined as a question of civil rights, which makes it a matter of legal ethics and not a moral issue -- religious or otherwise. Beneath the conflict is an underlying principle that speaks directly to that American ideal of a universal equity of liberty and justice, the likes of which our Constitution makes an irrevocable provision for us all. I, for one, will delight in the poetic justice of Prop 8 coming round to bite its founding funders and framers in the ass.

[chris]

There will be no outcasts in this church..the episcopal church welcome YOU

[DS]

To the person who wrote, "[asking] a Republican to treat gay people with respect is the same as asking a Nazi to treat a Jewish person with respect.
Do NOT trust them EVER."

I don't want to get all academic on you, but the notion of gay marriage really is more of a republican notion than a democratic one. Google the concept negative freedom v. positive freedom and you'll find that to be true.

And too, kindly remember our newly beloved Barack Obama does NOT support gay marriage- and I wouldn't expect him to, being a democrat.

So many politicians nowadays seem to go with what's popular with their constituents versus some very basic ideals that are fundamental to their respective parties, despite their party affiliation. American politics are in sad shape these days- both democrats and republicans.

[Avid Gay]

Re: Gay Union Is Marriage:

What you say is compelling and yet so full of sh*t. To think that people like you exisit is sad. God must have work an extra day on your to put all that stupid into your being.-- I think that the passing of Prop 8 was a blessing in desiguse because it is going to the court system. Everyone is the same in the eyes of the law because Green is Green.

[Eric B]

I agree that the wording of the prop 8 was meant to derive confusion among voters. As a resident of Florida I would like to remind every one that a similar amendment passed in Florida too. The wording of this amendment was exactly the same as Prop 8. I am disappointed in the gay community in Florida for failure to organize in protest of the amendment. Perhaps it is because the California protests are covered in the news in Miami immediately before a world chess championship.........

[Bill]

I don’t like it when someone writes or says that “I think we have bigger issues as a society to solve….”
The gay community has to deal with their problems as an individual. We can’t go around telling people how to behave or who they can have sex with. I don’t agree with most of the behaviors of gay society but it is not my place to impose my will on others but nor do I have to wait and put my life on hold because others can’t get with the program.
There are issues that we can stand together on as a community, but dictating to others how to conduct their life isn’t one of them.
I disagree with you cocomin, I mean what… I have to wait my whole life or never to have the same rights that my siblings have which by the way, they are all miserable in their marriages and I am extremely happy in mine. Mine is working… I have been married since 2003 and I had another ceremony in 2007 in California… My spouse and I are happy and excited to be together. So some of us can do it better than the heterosexuals.

[Palm Springs sinner]

If marriage licenses are issued by our government, then marriage cannot be defined by the church, not in a country that separates church and state. If the church insists on defining marriage, then the government should have never issued married licences. All couples - gay and straight - should be issued civil unions instead. The church fanatics can do what they want to within their own church. But they have no right to make laws that treat gay and straights differently.

[doyle]

Jim Gilmore and the rest like him show a disservice to the gay community by maligning church going people just because he disagrees with them. Sorry Jimmy, but Marriage has been defined as between a Man and a Woman for Centuries! Across many religions and cultures. Some cultures between one man and many women. Just recently, the gay community has attempted to redefine that and expand the definition. Just because most people disagree with you doesnt make them bad people it only gives you an opportunity to change their minds in why it's important to expand the definition. Acting like spoiled Brats who didnt' get their way, screaming in the streets making fools of yourselves, invading churches with your rants, knocking crosses out of little old ladies hands does NOTHING but piss people off and dig into their opinions why you are not worthy of such a right. Grow UP~! Quit acting like a bunch of pissed off little childeren. Do you see 55 Million voters rioting in the street because John McCain didn't get elected? NO! I dare say if Obama lost you would have millions of idiots in the street rioting, buring things because they didnt get their way. Let me tell you something, your behaviour has CHANGED my mind about gay marriage. Though I voted no on Prop 8, I'm in the firm belief by your dispicable behaviour and those like you, that you are not ready for such a right, nor are you worthy of it. Try acting like mature individuals of character AND high moral integrity instead of the facist you are acting like. When you can accomplish that, you will have people knocking down the walls that separate us to give us the same freedoms we will then deserve.

[Mike]

1. Only the courts can overturn this vote result. It's good that Jerry Brown will push the issue to the courts, but neither he nor Ah-nold can overturn it.

2. The white establishment didn't feel compelled to negotiate with MLK until Malcolm X showed them what the alternative could be. The gay rights push needs polite activism from the mainstream but we also need the hot-headed protest that will keep others involved.

[Justin]

The rights of a minority can not be put into the hands of the majority for popular vote! Equality has been a major goal for this country since it's birth. Successful resolution of injustice and inequality to minority groups only came from our government. Government must acknowledge their responsibility to correct this problem.
Are republican's nazis? Well not exactly, but the comment didn't offend me the way it did a few others who have commented. The fact is the opinion of the republican party does not matter. For that matter any more than the democratic opinion matters. What does offend me is to hear a "gay man" defending this discrimination and reducing its significance to only a single issue. The US government defines these rights as a "Pinciple of Democracy". Feel free to read the following from the US Department of State:

On the surface, the principles of majority rule and the protection of individual and minority rights would seem contradictory. In fact, however, these principles are twin pillars holding up the very foundation of what we mean by democratic government.

Majority rule is a means for organizing government and deciding public issues; it is not another road to oppression. Just as no self-appointed group has the right to oppress others, so no majority, even in a democracy, should take away the basic rights and freedoms of a minority group or individual.

Minorities -- whether as a result of ethnic background, religious belief, geographic location, income level, or simply as the losers in elections or political debate -- enjoy guaranteed basic human rights that no government, and no majority, elected or not, should remove.

Minorities need to trust that the government will protect their rights and self-identity. Once this is accomplished, such groups can participate in, and contribute to their country's democratic institutions.

Among the basic human rights that any democratic government must protect are freedom of speech and expression; freedom of religion and belief; due process and equal protection under the law; and freedom to organize, speak out, dissent, and participate fully in the public life of their society.

Democracies understand that protecting the rights of minorities to uphold cultural identity, social practices, individual consciences, and religious activities is one of their primary tasks.

Acceptance of ethnic and cultural groups that seem strange if not alien to the majority can represent one of the greatest challenges that any democratic government can face. But democracies recognize that diversity can be an enormous asset. They treat these differences in identity, culture, and values as a challenge that can strengthen and enrich them, not as a threat.

There can be no single answer to how minority-group differences in views and values are resolved -- only the sure knowledge that only through the democratic process of tolerance, debate, and willingness to compromise can free societies reach agreements that embrace the twin pillars of majority rule and minority rights.

[Byron A. Lorrier, Esq.]

Let's hope this helps undo Amendment 2 in Florida.

[Donald]

Doyle, you must be white. You are nothing more then a racist and a disgrace to the human race for your racist statement.

[Dave in Massachusetts (where EQUAL MARRIAGE lives!)]

The answer to all this is simple. We need to remove the tax exempt status of every religious group involved retroactive to the beginning of this century (1/1/2001) on every peice of property they own or owned from that time forward. If they have all this money to buy precious air time to spew discrimination then they can certainly afford to pay taxes.

We next need to pass laws that ALL political advertising of ANY kind must be 100% truthful and any radio or TV station that allows an ad with ANYTHING that is not true would be fined 10 times the cost of the ad time AND risk license revocation. If, for example an ad says TEACHERS WOULD BE FORCED TO TEACH ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY and its not true then that is an offense and if the station allows it on the air it's THEIR ass! (Would sure STOP the negative ads wpuldn't it?).

Here in the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts this mess was settled as it was meant to be. The citizens asked the legislature for an up or down vote to put it on a ballot. It was voted DOWN. END OF STORY! Then of course the wack jobs changed their stroy and said no they wanted a vote BY THE PEOPLE. Thank God we had a change of Governors. Romney forced and armtwisted a few week pols to vote against equal marriage. When he was gone (he never did much but look for photo ops anyway) our new Governor Patrick made getting the foolishness killed a top priority and the legislature did just that. It was intersting to note the right wing wackso said they would target all who switched their vote and get them ousted in November. Well surprise, surprise, surprise not one of them was voted out and those who DID oppose us were note releected. We may be a pone party state but maybe thats what other states need.

Lastly I and ALL my friends have boycotted ALL that is California. I planned a vacation there in January. CANCELLED! I was going to buy gifts from an online store til I sdiscovered they were in LA. CANCELLED! Trust me. We in thje gay community have the $$ and we WILL win in the end!

[Luis]

I agree with Dave in Massachussetts.... we need to place an ammendment on the next ballot to withdraw tax-exempt status from all churches! Enough is enough, they are politicians and we need to FIGHT BACK!!!!

[Paul]

Ok Im going to say this one last time and thats its so I truly hope someone is paying attention. THE BIBLE that keeps getting quoted over and over and over about between a man and a woman with marriage is making me sick....I ask this one question? How was Jesus Made? Come on people Man or GOD....?last time i read the bible i thought Mary was a virgin and GOD created the child. By the way the next idiot that Quotes the bible, please bring me your daughter so i can stone her to death because she had sex before marriage. is that not what the bible says to do? If your a woman you should not even have a voice so SHUT UP thats what the bible says. Maybe not word for word but for the most part right? Do you see all the things wrong when you try to use the bible and take the sections that you want to take...I MEAN IF YOUR ALL SO WORRIED ABOUT BEING CHRISTIAN THEN WHY DO YOU ALL CELEBRATE HALLOWEEN... its a PAGEN holiday.. The people of the devil..it does not seem to stop anyone in the little crap hole midwest city that i live in from going around and celebrating it...my point is this...ITS NOT ABOUT RELIGION...guess what GOD LOVES ME and YOU.. For all my fellow Gay Peers in the world.. Do not worry about these people of hate preach...they are doing the Devils work and they are doing a much better job then any of us could ever try to.. whats the one thing the bible says, that the Devil will devide the people and they will worship a false GOD.. Will what do you think the Devil is doing with all these people who stand behind their bible selecting the little bits that make them feel good about themselfs although they are out there divorcing, having sex with thy neighbor, thinking lustful thouhgts about others then their spouse...THE ONE THING I HAVE LEARNED IN THIS WORLD IN THE 37 years I have been on it is to not JUDGE anyone. I am a sinner... WE ALL ARE THATS WHY JESUS DIED FOR US..I have done many horrible things in my life and I will be lucky if GOD forgives me for any of it... However being GAY is not one of them...There is nothing any of us can say to sway one side or the other. You are either GOOD or BAD.. There is no inbetween...you either do right or wrong...99% of child molesters are STRAIGHT MEN...HUMMMMMMM?????? makes you wonder. With the way the this world is today I will be suprised if anyone makes it to heaven...I once heard a quote in a song "What is God could not come back because their were no children to come back for" With all the HATE we show on TV and movies and video games, and yes MUSIC..don't you think we have bigger battles to fight then this... Are you honestly telling me that a majority of this country that is run by straight men and women are not the ones creating all this hatred on the Movies and TV and VideoGames and MUSIC....my final thought to anyone struggling with all this Live for GOD. Know in the end he will do whats right.. Live in Love for all your mankind...EVEN THE ONES YOU DONT UNDERSTAND OR AGREE WITH.. Personally after fighting for GAY rights for 20 years...IM TIRED..I dont care what they say... I will be with the One I LOVE....Know that your life was a blessing from GOD not a mistake. Know that if you truly believe in the bible that it does say that GOD does not make mistakes so therefor you could not be one...Marriage is just a word..In the end are you going to be with your creator? If you live by all his teachings then yes... but you cant pick and choose..NOT ONCE DOES THE NEW TESTAMENT talk about Homosexuality as being wrong, it does not even talk about it. Go Figure.. Let the people say and think what they want...For all the hurt they do they will have to answer for it in the end....as so will we so remember... LOVE, and Believe thats all GOD ASKS OF YOU...IN the end i wont be Married to my partner...I will be with GOD.. and only GOD...

[RazzBearyMA]

To truly be equal citizens, gays must be allowed the right of marriage EXACTLY as it applies to heterosexuals. Any time you have a law or proposition that denies equal rights to any citizen, it should be the moral and legal responsibility of the state (and federal) Supreme Court justices to determine that it is unconstitutional. If you had passed a proposition that called for accused criminals to be sentenced without a trial....it would be immediately overturned by the supreme court as unconstitutional. Why?...Because it would be against the rights of that individual because she/he did not get a fair trial. The same premise holds true for gay marriage....not only at the state level , but on a federal level as well.
Civil Unions and Domestic Partnerships do NOT provide equal rights. My brother is in the hospital as I write this. He is gravely ill with cancer and may not survive. His partner of almost 20 years may not be able to make essential decisions on his care because he did not have additional documents completed above and beyond the Domestic Partnership they have. If they were married....there would be no question as to his legal rights in making decisions for his spouse that he has loved and cared for all these years.
Marriage provides financial benefits as well. For instance, if gay marriage was accepted nationally, gay couples would enjoy the benefit of filing joint returns with both the state and federal agencies. In additon, marriage would protect the financial and personal holdings of the surviving spouse from distant family members who "swoop" in after a death. Many of these people have not had contact with the deceased for years or sometimes decades simply because she/he was gay, but they have no problem receiving the person's property after death.
The commercials supporting Proposition 8 in California were disgusting and intentionally misleading. I certainly hope that my children grow up to love all people with no judgements against anyone else simply because she/he is not exactly like them. Proposition 8 should NEVER have reached the ballot. It is unconstitutional and WRONG. I hope I live to see the day that gay marriage is no longer a right that is denied to two people who love each other and want to share their life together.

[Richard Dominguez]

I am sick and tired of hearing about the gays crying. They know it agaianst god law to be homosexual. If it not why is there a law against sodomizeing a child. It is a choice to be gay and you know it. I hope the courts will protect the children and to end the gay bull shit. You want to penatrate a hole use a women for that that we we exist/...
davey and davey can't make babies. you know that it not right to fool mother nature.. Go back to the cave and start to be a real man.

[Richard Dominguez]

all gays are useing the domestic partnership excuse for why they should be married. I don't neeed any one to have say for my behalf. i have the ability to make a WILL to take care of that. Go to hell with that excuse. That why we have legal rights to direct a WILL in any way we choose to...

[GAMmeetGWM]

Even my parents don't tell me who I can marry. Why shoud people tell me who I can marry ? I am so sick and disgusted people use God to against everything. You'd better pray that your kids or grandkids not to be gays, RD.

[dave befford]

re: the episcopal church welcomes you comment: as a resident of massachusetts and a former Episcopalian....that church is as hypocrital as the rest. the bishops of the Episcopal church in massachusetts prohibit their clergy from performing same sex weddings.i had to be married by a justice of the peace.
the "there will be no outcasts" slogan only apples if you are heterosexual.