Huckabee: Gays not bashed enough?

One good thing about washing out of the presidential race early: It gives you a head start in the campaign-memoir race. Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, making the rounds to promote his book, had this to say to the ladies of "The View."         

"People who are homosexuals should have every right in terms of their civil rights, to be employed, to do anything they want. . . . But when we're talking about a redefinition of an institution, that's different than individual civil rights. . . . Here is the difference. Bull Connor was hosing people down in the streets of Alabama. John Lewis got his skull cracked on the Selma bridge."

"Segregation was an institution, and it was struck down,"  Huckabee was reminded. Someone also piped up about gay-bashing.

"And there's Christian-bashing," he said. "All violence is wrong."

Does anyone else find this guy more frightening than the out-and-out loonies like Michele Bachmann?  (Who, by the way, was re-elected.) Clearly he feels gayness is a matter of individual discretion, kind of like how he lost all that weight to avoid fat discrimination.       

Comments

[Chuck]

Hmm...I see that Gay.com has taken it upon itself, among other things, to change my ID to Chuck instead of cbdcs4u which is the ID that I posted under.

No wonder I got the hell out of here. ;-)

[samreis]

Not sure if I'm posting this twice, sorry if I am....
Since there seems to be a trend to comment on this blog, I thought I might contribute a few of my own views. I'll try not to be repetitive and restate the same arguments against MarkF. Before, I comment though, MarkF, I want to send my best wishes to Mark F. It's important that everyone has the opportunity to speak their opinions, whether some agree with them or not. Mark F clearly has a lot of courage and security in his beliefs to post his opinions on gay.com, and I don't think slurs or hatred at his expensive is deserving. However, I don't agree with everything he says either.
First, it is important to establish that homosexuality as the modern person understands is a new phenomenon. Homosexual activity, or sex between members of the same gender has occurred for thousands of year; however, homosexuality as a self definition is relatively new. This makes it relatively difficult to maintain that all societies that condoned homosexuality did not last long. Even if you understand homosexuality as sex between men or women, then contradictions immediately present themselves. The Rome survived for nearly a millenium, and sex between men was not persecuted and was an accepted part of society. Even in the Renaissance and middle ages the practice of pederasty in which adult men pursued sexual relations with boys was very prominent and acceptable. As long as the adults took the active position or "topped" then it was permitted by society.
In the past and today sex whether heterosexually or homosexually has often been centred around domination and submission. If you examine the most popular pornography (homosexual/heterosexual), this is self evident. So when a killer rapes a man, it may not mean that he is homosexual, it may represent an act of violent and sexual domination in which sex is irrelevant.
As for gay marriage, I'm proud to be canadian. More importantly though, and Huckabee alludes to this concept, people often assume that marriage is an institution that was invented by christianity. This is not true, marriage existed in pre-constantinian Rome, China, and first nations tribes in the new world. So when some people claim that marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman they are often subconsciously thinking through a limited perspective. In several indigenous cultures in North America, a man who had same sex desires could be considered two-spirited ( having both male and female spirits) and therefore marry the sex of his choice. However, if some still find it hard to disassociate marriage from certain implications, consider this. The etymology of the marriage, through Latin, proto-indo-european, takes us eventually to Sanskript and the word marya meaning young man.
So the question becomes if your country desires a government that is founded and judges its laws according to certain deontological doctrines, then gay marriage by all means should not be permitted. In the bible it does clearly state that marriage is between a man and a woman. However, if you desire a government that is unbiased, detached from bonds of religion, and fair towards all then gay marriage has to be allowed. That does not mean that the government will be a cold machine, on the contrary. This type of government with an empty plate of biases, and void of prejudice can treat each individual with more affection and respect.
I'm sure someone is going to respond to this message and probably reject everything that I say, and that is incredible. Either God, or evolution has endowed humans with choice and reason, and it is important that we continue to promote and exercise this great gift.

[Jon]

Mark F,

Please don't lump me into that twisted sense of reality you have about the gay community. I don't know where you've been hanging out but most of the people I know who are queer do not fit into any of that nonesense that you spouted off.

And Mark, just name me any culture/society that hasn't been filled with depravity?

Or better yet let's look at the most homophobic societies today and see how they're doing. Oh looks like Africa is pretty much up shits creek without a paddle, Eastern Europe is like one giant latrine, and Iran certainly isn't the pinnacle of success. Your argument is so flawed it's comical. If anything the societies that have accepted homosexuality and others with dignity an equal rights are the ones that tend to prosper.

[stef]

I'm sorry if you feel gay marriage is being shoved down your throat, but the last time I checked the constitution was to protect our CIVIL RIGHTS that are guaranteed to ALL Americans. So regardless of if you like it or not, if it's shoved down your throat or served on a shiny silver platter, you should support equality for everyone. Period.

Secondly, everyone is saying we need to "protect traditional marriage." Well why don't you protect it and not get divorced! The Bible doesn't approve of that but how quickly you overlook those sort of things when it's convenient for you. It's a sad day when Britney Spears can get a 54 hour annulment to her quickie [drunken] Vegas wedding and I can't marry my loving partner of several years. Yes, please afford her those rights simply because she has a vagina and her "husband" has a penis.

Thirdly, the Mormon church is not suffering from "hate crimes"! They are being targeted for involving themselves in holding down a minority group for the sake of their own faith. I also find it ironic that the one religion that condones polygamy is the one forbidding others of marrying a SINGLE partner. Now is it just me or does that sound greedy to anyone else? More insulting is the fact that I personally received a call from a Mormon volunteer that called me from Utah. Why the hell are they involving themselves with California state affairs?? I don't go to Utah and try to push my beliefs onto them!

didn't we already get fooled by a another "COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVE?"

Social issues: Huckabee opposes abortion, same-sex marriage, and civil unions. In an interview with GQ, Huckabee said, "There's never been a civilization that has rewritten what marriage and family means and survived."[164] In 1992, Huckabee indicated that he was against homosexuals serving in the military, and did not believe that women should be allowed in combat.[165] When asked about the issues of homosexuals in the military during his presidential run, Huckabee said he would not change the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which prohibits openly gay personnel from serving. "...you don't punish people for their attitudes," he said. "You punish them if their behavior creates a problem, and it's already covered by the Uniform Code of Military Conduct."[166] In 1992, Huckabee said that "homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle, and we now know it can pose a dangerous public health risk."[167] As of 2007, his view that homosexuality is "sinful" and "abnormal" had not changed.[168]

[Josh]

There's nothing offensive about what he said. You're overreacting and you lack critical thinking skills if you can't see the difference between the '60s and today.

[corrective_unconscious]

moron > We don't find an epidemic of straight guys abusing little girls in the schools and churches.

Because their str8, adult male relatives are incesting them at home

clueless > We don't find straight people cruising in bathrooms and parks.

Those are overwhelmingly married closet cases, like uber xtain Ted Haggard and former Fl. Rep. Allen and "ex-gays" doing that stuff. Increasingly, young gay people are able to be as open and public in their dating and romances as their str8 peers.

That wasn't always the case, thanks to organized, homophobic campaigns of defamation such as we're seeing on this message board, with this daisy chain of bigots applauding each post from the bigot just in front of him. (Assuming all these different phobe monikers are not the same sick, self denying ex gay who has come here to "minister" out of self hate ineptly disguised as "love" or as "spirituality.")

[corrective_unconscious]

>Mark F clearly has a lot of courage and security in his beliefs to post his opinions on gay.com

No, he's a defaming bigot, and I only wonder what the reaction would be if I went to a Mormon/cult website and began posting what hypocrites and liars they are (Mormons lecturing anyone on marriage as only between a man and a woman, smirk,) or made similar comments at the websites of various homophobic talibangelical organizations.

Except the difference is I'm not trying to take any rights away from talibangelicals, as Mark F. and his homophobic overseers are trying to do regarding g/l/b/t people. Not yet, anyway.

[SD]

There are actually some good arguments here and although Mark F is taking the brunt of the backlash he has an opinion that needs to be explored, not condemned. There is a difference in living out a sexual fantasy in a chat room and taking action against an unwilling participant.

Let’s look at those individuals trolling the bathrooms and internet chat rooms, instead of assuming who they are, let’s explore why they are there. These men, in my opinion, who are supposedly straight and married or living a straight life, are most likely gay. They are in these situations because that is where they were pushed, to the one place men could go and be with other men publicly and somewhat privately. Gay men seek out other gay men the exact same way. Bathroom cruising in one form or another has been around for a long, long time. There wasn’t internet that very long ago, before the chat rooms there weren’t public forums or places to connect with other gay men. It wasn’t until the 20th century that there were gay clubs, bars, bathhouses, etc… none of those came along until “gay” went commercial. And not all men looking to act on their sexuality went to them, so what did they have and were could they go?

We have vilified and condemned they gay lifestyle for so long that many gay men hid their true selves and married women, had children and still began (or continued in hiding) to explore the true person they were inside. If being gay was not portrayed as such an evil thing then more gay men would be out of the closet, would not be marrying women and would not be the day-cruisers at the local bathrooms, rest stops and chat rooms. Those that want to protect the world from homosexuality have assisted in and pushed them towards the “evils” that they so love to pass judgment over. Is it too far-fetched to believe that they are there because that is where society pushed them?

Also, I would recommend if you want to further your knowledge of the gay community at large, don’t just look in internet chat rooms and under bathroom stalls, those are by far the minority of the gay people. Instead, why not look into the local gay community centers, sports organizations, charity groups, metropolitan churches, advocacy groups, PFFLAG, HRC and other LGBT support and interest groups – you may actually find out that we are not all drug addicted child molesters, in fact, some of us are very happy, law abiding and tolerant people just trying to live our own lives without fear of those that do not know or understand that we are just like them, we just happen to love someone of the same sexual orientation.