A Slap In The Face?

The selection of Rev. Rick Warren to deliver the inauguration invocation by President Elect Obama has been called “a slap in the faces of the millions of GLBT voters” by some gay leaders. Rev. Warren is the author of bestseller "The Purpose Driven Life" and is the founder of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, the fourth largest church in America.

Having hosted a presidential forum this past summer, the choice comes as no surprise. But his stances on many social issues, including his vocal support of California’s Prop. 8, appear to be at odds with Obama’s “everyone is welcome at the table” philosophy.

Going even further, Andrew Sullivan wrote that “Warren is a man who believes my marriage removes his freedom of speech and cannot say that authorizing torture is a moral failing. ... if anyone is under any illusion that Obama is interested in advancing gay equality, they should probably sober up now. ... pandering to Christianists at his inauguration is a depressing omen.”

In an interview with Beliefnet.com referencing civil unions, he stated “no American should ever be discriminated against because of their beliefs. Period. But a civil union is not a civil right. Nowhere in the constitution can you find the “right” to claim that any loving relationship identical to marriage. It’s just not there.”

Speaking for Obama, Linda Douglass, defended Warren’s selection saying, "This is going to be the most inclusive, open, accessible inauguration in American history." She also pointed out that Obama disagrees with Warren on many issues.

Should Obama replace Warren? Or do you think that our community demanding acceptance means that we should be open to sharing the stage with those with dissenting opinions?

(Photo: Getty Images)

Comments

[Joe Moag]

I notice that this post - as every other post that I have seen on the gay blogs on this subject - fails to mention that Rev. Joseph Lowery, a staunch supporter of LGBT rights, is giving the Benediction at the Inauguration.

Should the Fundies and Wingnuts, therefore, bemoan Obama's "activist, far Left Gay Agenda" because Lowery is giving the Benediction?

Or, should the LGBT community wait and see what the substantive policy and program actions of this administration are before declaring, one way or the other, just what this administration does and does not do in advancing LGBT rights in America?

[Jeff]

"I notice that this post - as every other post that I have seen on the gay blogs on this subject - fails to mention that Rev. Joseph Lowery, a staunch supporter of LGBT rights, is giving the Benediction at the Inauguration."

My understanding is that Rev. Lowery is a civil rights supporter, but not a gay civil rights supporter.

[Joe Moag]

Jeff: Read this post to get a sense of where Lowery stands on gay rights: http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/2512

There is a lot more on the guy. This is just one post.

[Jim]

What a bunch of cry babies gay extremists have become!! Obama reaches out to those with other views, but we are too narrow minded to do the same.

[Frankly]

So what. It doesn't matter that he has somebody on there that is sympathetic. You have to ask yourself why would he want this man on the podium.

And his pattern of strategy tells us. Obama sought a new path to the electoral college vote. Allowing for the loss or Florida, he went after other states. It is apparent, that Obama wants the Evangelical vote. He intends to find a way to the reelection without us.

This is the beginning of his term, not even sworn in yet, and this is our treatment? Or insult? This is does not bode well. And if we take it, we are fools.

[Henri]

Oh jeez! All the man's going to do is pray! Let it go!

[Tone]

The man has not event taken the oath of office yet and we show impatience. Give our new President time to deliver.

The table does have room for others. It does not have to be filled with ONE TYPE of belief. Getting things done takes strategy, diligence and perseverance... has the our community run out of these character traits?

[Christian]

Please tell me you guys are not shocked by this. Obama didnt even support gay marriage. I voted for McCain, he is against gay marriage and yet he voted AGAINST the federal ban. You guys have no clue what Obama is about to do. We are more screwed than we were while Bush is in office.

[bohng]

Look at his cabinet.... diversity is a trademark of this man. Despite this selection... he still is the most pro gay president that's been elected... I have a lot of hope for Mr. Obama, but let be realistic!

[JPC]

I am a Christian and a pastor, on the progressive side of the spectrum.Initially, I was upset only that Warren had been chosen, because I do think it sends a troubling message. And Joseph Lowrey is beyond reproach, but why two Christians in the inauguration? We are the most religiously diverse nation on earth. Keep Lowrey, and replace Warren with someone of another tradition. This should not be so hard, should it?

[Peter]

What is amazing to me is that the people who are demanding that the gay community just "get over it" dont seem to understand is that in an effort to hear from all "sides" and to reserve a "place for everyone at the table" Obama WOULD not tap the spiritual leader of the KKK to give the opening prayer at his Swearing In. This is a ridiculous decision by the Obama team and I want all of my campaign contributions back!

[Obama is a Loser]

I am so glad I sat this election out, he is pandering to both sides and I agree with Jim " It is apparent, that Obama wants the Evangelical vote. He intends to find a way to the reelection without us", you watch, you though u were butt fucked, well, wait till the big black dick of this traitor is up your hinney.....

[America needs Obama NOT a Bush]

We can't be anymore FUCKED than we have been the last 8 years. Bush cried "chrisitanity" all that time and we've been screwed so much everyone should be loose by now.
CHANGE/Acceptance includes everyone. Stop whimpering.

[SeattleBoi]

I think that gay people have been screwed so much that they don't trust anyone anymore. Rick Warren is going to pray the inaugural prayer not hold any office in Obama's cabinet. However, there are openly gay people that are going to be in Obama's cabinet running things in this country. Why can't we open our minds, be intelligent, and see the reality. So what he wants a vote from Evangelicals, he also wants white votes when he's plainly seen as the first Black President-elect. What if he just went after all black votes, he'd be a fool. If evangelicals vote for him because he let their guy pray, their shallow. We need to take the time to see what Obama does while he's in office, not at his inauguration!

[tj]

As was pointed out last nite on AC360, would there be any discussion going on if fat-lifestyle-choosing Warren was saying interracials shouldn't be allowed to marry?

[SeattleBoi]

I think that gay people have been screwed so much that they don't trust anyone anymore. Rick Warren is going to pray the inaugural prayer not hold any office in Obama's cabinet. However, there are openly gay people that are going to be in Obama's cabinet running things in this country. Why can't we open our minds, be intelligent, and see the reality. So what he wants a vote from Evangelicals, he also wants white votes when he's plainly seen as the first Black President-elect. What if he just went after all black votes, he'd be a fool. If evangelicals vote for him because he let their guy pray, their shallow. We need to take the time to see what Obama does while he's in office, not at his inauguration!

[Chuck]

While I completely understand looking at various views and hold a understanding that some will never find Gay marriage acceptable, as there are those that still find whites marrying blacks disgusting. And yes, it was the same people that claimed if black men were allowed to marry white women, it would ruin marriage... yeah, I've heard it before. But this is not about Gay marriage for me... but this is about taking away RIGHTS from American Citizens. Saddam threatened the rights of American citizens and we went to WAR, Rick Warren does it and get's invited to Washington??? hmmmm and regardless to what anyone thinks about Gay marriage... there is NO wiggle room on the taking away rights from American Citizens as Rick Warren advocates. It's shocking that Obama would choose someone like this, considering he is going to become the leader of the largest free society in the world and yet has a man up there giving a speech, that advocates the taking away of rights from a certain group of Americans. Shameful, wrong and immoral.

[Gregory - iconicscooter (gay.com)]

Regardless of the outcome, the Democratic Party has never been and never will be on the side of the gay community; your observations and factual evidence need only supply you with such understanding.

The hypocrisy from the Dems about being for this or that minority only to sell 'em out or short for their own self-interest of political gain, is always the du jour. Does DADT ring a bell?

House, Senate and Presidency held by dems and that's what you got from them regarding the military. Aren't they Schwell!

I made several posts prior to the election about the breathless inanity of the gay community throwing support behind any Democratic candidate when they've done nothing to deserve such blind support.

It was a REPUBLICAN governor in CA that came out and supported gays in fighting for their marriage rights, not Dems.

Where were all the 230+ voices from the House and 50+ voices from the Senate, en masse, blasting the failing of Prop 8?

Why in the past 2 years did not the House or Senate, at least in gesture only if nothing else, submit legislation rescinding DADT and the DOMA and then endorsing gay marriage?

Even if the President wouldn't sign it, at least they would have *SHOWN* some guts about the issue and their support for gays? did they? no they did not.

WATCH WHAT PEOPLE DO, NOT WHAT THEY SAY THEY DO.

What you're doing is so loud we can't hear what you're saying.

[Sam]

Power corrupts everybody. I'd much rather live the happiest life personally, and for the guys I like- then try to force my beliefs down other people. Homosexuals are just too small in the population to really do anything either way - the beauty and balance of nature and life.

Any 'rights' you had would just translate to consumerism here in the west, look at what Pride events have turned into. It's not about who is gay or straight, it's about who has money. I want true acceptance of homosexuality, I do not want to be exchanged for goods and/or services.. well it's already too late for that.

I just can't be that vindictive or cold-blooded sorry. There are plenty of gay guys that can, but I am not like that.

The gay movement is about understanding ourselves, and ridding ourselves of our own shame- not about getting straight people to go along with us. Working on getting gay men as independent as possible so they cannot be harmed by oppressive heterosexual norms, that would be the real goal don't you think?

I may not be able to make the other guy weaker, but if I work on myself- when I am attacked, I will be able to handle it. 'Stonewall' means just that.

I look for other gay guys to lead personally. Not heterosexual men. Does the phrase 'cover your own ass' not apply to gay people or something?

And it's also terribly heterosexist and apologetic to augmulate being homosexual with 'gender identity.' Gay men do not feel we are trapped in the wrong gender. Cut that BS out, it makes absolutely no sense. It's just a political mindgame to get more power. The transgender people have their OWN struggles that I couldn't possibly relate to. I am just a regular ol gay guy, and I know how regular ol gay guys think.

[PiscesIrishEyes]

I am a fan of Obama and I think it was a genius choice to have Warren deliver the invocation. It is a nod to the evangelicals without expending any political capital. At the same time it does NOT give Warren a platform to expouse his anti-queer views.

What I am worried about is the fact that there was a experienced, qualified, labor and union leader (Mary Beth Maxwell) who had the potential to be the first openly queer member of the US Cabinet. Obama choose NOT to nominate her to the post of Labor Secratary.

While SeattleBoi says "there are openly gay people that are going to be in Obama's cabinet," that is not the case. The only openly gay official Obama has nominated as of yet is NOT a Cabinet level position. Not to mention it is an environmental position, not a civil rights position.

In a year of many many first, where are we in the Cabinet?

[Jason P.]

Good Grief! This is what scares me about the gay community. seriously.
If people can't support something as simple as this. Who in the heck are we to want equal rights?! lol
I'm so sick of people who believe in Love and acceptance...."as long as its something they agree with!"
ANYONE who disagrees with Mr. Obama's decision because of gay issues should REALLY step back, and take a look at themselves and then think about who's really being the intolerant person!
quit playin the gay card!!

[DeWitt Gravink]

Given that Obama, Biden, and Warren agree completely on the issue of gay marriage, why is anyone surprised by this?

[Raymond]

DO you people read and then answer what is written or do you just vote in any democrat that is running thinking that a dem is better than any republican,,,, Oh yeah,,, that question has already been answered. The Question was, for those of who voted for the man, Should Rick Warren be on the platform. NO NO NO
but hey, I know it is a difficult question and, as most democrats, you are not able to answer a direct question. This man stands for far more than "our we gays going to get our rights,,, oops I mean benefits"!!! The single fact that Obama has picked him is the great concern. But hey I predicted what he was going to do when elected but the bleeding hearts thought differently and Hey HE'S NOT A REAL POLITICIAN angle won! Have fun people. A USA GAY now in Canada!

[Clark]

Are Lowery and Warren both Protestants? Why not a Catholic? We need someone that is Pro-Life. Pro-Life gays are not represented adequately and need to be heard.

[Kevin]

Having prior knowledge of Rick Warren's stances on many issues I strongly disagree with him. For example, he is a borderline creationist. Also being gay myself, his stance on marriage doesn't exactly work in my favor.

However, Rick has written the best selling book in the world for 3 years running and has not kept a cent for himself. His main viewpoint is of stewardship. He stresses the fact that "It isn't about me." This is an extremely important ideology which reflects Obama's passionate political intents. The fact that Rick is not doing what he does for money shows that he is clearly a steward.

Obama's choice of Pastor Warren is a fair one. He is one of the most influential pastors of our time, and I hope Obama can lead his presidency in as much of a spirit of stewardship as Rick.

[Sam]

Why would I want a seat up in the table talking to a bunch of boring, overly idealistic power-hungry fucks anyway? Where is the fun and equality in that?

I am tired of pointing my finger and nagging about how other people should behave. Like any side is going to listen. Everybody is hard-wired to do their own thing. If you want true rights, than look at libertarian goals - not democrats.

[Clark]

What happened to Kevin's post of 3:32. It appears to have been deleted.

[Thomas Waters]

I am so tired of people who LOVE the idea of everyone has a place at the table, when they consider themselves- but they fail to realize that EVERYONE has a place at the table means those with opinions counter to our own are also welcome there.
Obama has a huge job ahead of him, and to accomplish anything he will need to bring groups of people together who see things differently. So we need to be at the table with those who do not see things our way. we don't need to roll over and give up a fight for our rights, but we have to be willing to remain in dialogue with everyone. Cutting out those who don't share our views is just as discriminatory as we have experienced used against us.
I'm also very afraid for the GLBT community if we fall into the trap at pinning full equal rights on the marriage issue. We are set up for failure if that s the case. While I think a movement for marriage equality is critical, it is not the bellweather for all our civil rights. It is one aspect, and IMHO, a small one at that.

To Chuck who posted earlier- we did not go to war because "Sadaam threatened the right s of Americans." We went to war because our country told us a lie that there were WMD's that didn't exist. and through that war we made America less safe than it has ever been.

[Clark]

OK. It Kevin's 3:32 post is back. Some gay.com blip.

[Todd]

Obama's not gay, his administration is not gay, and not everybody he made promises to is gay. So it follows that his presidency, his administration, and the people he chooses to do business with will not amount to one big circuit party for gay men. There's nearly 300 million people in the United States he needs to make happy and hundreds of issues he has to tackle on January 20. Gay rights will be a tiny part of the huge equation that eventually calculates out to how he wants the U.S. to look when he's done with his term. I'm not going to question all the variables he puts into that equation. I'm only going to question the result. Rick Warren is a variable.

[Arthur Graves]

I don't think President Obama is going to go backware. With all good speed he'll go foreware with Amercian.

[Gregory Curtis]

Anytime you aquiense to those that would deny you rights, human rights you in the end aid the enemy.

Believe me, as an african-American who has been denied his rights at times this is only the beginning.

Dont get caught up in the Obama fantasy. They the enemy through vessels like Warren will deny TRULY turn you into 2nd claqss citizens, unless you fight now. You die.

[Gregory Curtis]

African-Americans didnt except seperate but equal. Why would you???

[DDS]

"A Slap in the Face?" Where have you, the author, been the past 2 years of campaigning?

Senator Obama has never claimed to be a proponent of gay anything. To be fair, neither was his running mate, Senator McCain.

The closest anyone came to that was Senator McCains' position that his administration would not do anything to imped gay social advancements.

[Wyatt1969again]

Contrary even to my own emotional gut feelings about this – I know I need to keep a level head.

I know better.

Don’t be so quick to point out Rev. W as an arm of the President Elect whom will undermine the Gay agenda.

There are other Agendas.

Among them – Barack Obama must find a way to bring us all back from the division which threatens to stall real American progress – not just Gay rights.

It aint easy bitches – it aint easy.

He’s in the kitchen now.

You want him to start with the dishes.

Others would like to see some sweeping.

Still more would appreciate a little aperitif.

Snap the fuck out of it.

This mother fucker is going to do all that shit with one hand tied behind his back and the other – free to do 5 more things you thought you would never see.

We all want our list to be considered first. That’s unfortunately and yes, arguably, the American way.

The goal of any idealism is to perpetuate that activity which allows it to grow – to become – to mature into a reality.

This can not be done if you, me or any of us – Gay or Straight – allow our personal beliefs to supersede the needs of ANY majority.

You want rain?

Don’t go looking for a rainmaker – because that’s the same bullshit you’ve been buying for a while now.

No – you need a mother fucking weather man – someone who knows what the fuck is going on and will tell you the truth - someone whom is not perfect but attempts to be as accurate as possible.

Barack Obama will see you through the storm.

Your roof might loose a shingle or two.

Your might get a little cold.

You might even have to swallow your pride and ask for help.

What the fuck do you all want – a magic wand?

Am I proud of Barack Obama because he is a Black Man and he became President?

You bet your fucking ass I am.

But I am even more so because I believe he is a man of integrity – educated – wise – spiritual - and ready to make what looks like an impossible situation do one thing - work.

No one should be so callus as to overlook who this man is or what he had to do to get where he is today.

Think you can do better?

Prove it.

Otherwise shut the fuck up and give him a chance.

[Sonny]

Do you honestly think Obama will give gays any rights anyways? I dont think he will. He may be a democrat, but his selling point was not gay liberation

[Alan]

Skip the invocation and benediction altogether - i.e., maintain the separation of church and state. This would solve the problem.

[Me]

In parody of Todd's commment above.

Abraham Lincoln's not BLACK, his administration was not BLACK, and not everybody he made promises to was BLACK. So it follows that his presidency, his administration, and the people he chose to do business with would have not amounted to one big CAROLINA SLAVE PLANTATION for BLACK people. There's nearly 20 million people in the United States he needed to make happy and hundreds of issues he had to tackle on March 4th.

YET

This supposedly tiny variable of EMANCIPATION OF BLACKS was a HUGE PART of the equation that eventually calculated out to how he wanted the US to look when he's done with his term.

KNOWING THE RESULT OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN'S EQUATION...

I'm going to QUESTION THIS SEEMINGLY TINY, YET HUGELY RIGHTEOUS VARIABLE that Hussein Osama failed to put into HIS equation.

KNOWING WHAT ELEVATED ABRAHAM LINCOLN INTO THE PANTHEON OF OUR COUNTRY PATRON SAINTS. AND SEEING HOW HUSSEIN OSAMA FAILED TO GRASP WHAT WAS RIGHTEOUS.

I'm going to question whether the result is another saint being made or just another lump of sh*t being tossed into the cesspool of our country history.

Rick Warren isn't a variable. He's just another faith peddling bastard. And so are Hussein Osama's apologists.

[WakeUpGayAmerica]

Just more anti-Christian bias from segments of the gay media. Any Christian is assumed to be anti-gay and to hate us. Is Rick Warren one of those? You decide.

http://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/06/07/rick-warrens-latest-gay-fathers-day/

Would a man who hates us have participated in such a thing? HELL NO.

Many of you need to get off this anti-Christian, most-Christians-are-bad bullshit and wake up.

[Gregory Curtis]

in 1930's Germany the population stood by and said give our leader a chance. A severe comparison yes, but spot on. Dont give any ground, you will not get it back. Loving Obama as a canidate is one thing but now that we can see that he will govern from the center the honeymoon is over you will not talk me out of my rights in order to bring our country together. Deny yourself at your own peril.

[Lou]

Hey wow way to be original... this is only what's been on the news today... and we come here to gay.com to get away from the normal stuff. Lame!

[Me]

Obama and Biden are both saying exactly the same thing as Rick Warren - marriage is between a man and a woman. Unless the formerly most liberal junior senator is actually lying. Personally, I'd rather someone stand up for what they really believe, rather than lying about their beliefs to get votes. Unfortunately, people tend to care mostly about what only directly affects them. I care about it because it affects me. Obama, Biden and Warren don't care about it because they're not gay. If everyone else in the Democratic constituency is only looking out for themselves, I say gay people should do the same. Stop supporting the rights of blacks/Asians/Hispanics, stop supporting the pro life movement, stop supporting the women's movement, stop supporting environmentalists, and so on. If the only people looking out for gay people are gay people and friends, I'm done with my support for them. I've been a very strong supporter of all these groups throughout my life. And this is how I'm repaid?

[Me]

Pro CHOICE movement. Typo.

[Jimmy]

I cannot understand why Rick Warren would give the invocation at Obama's inaguration. Last May at Weslayn's commencement, then Senator Obama said, "an individuals salvation is based on the salvation of the collective." In the bible, salvation is based solely on an individuals belief in Jesus Christ as their personal saviour. I would have thought Pastor Warren would have stayed away from someone with such obvious non-christian beliefs.

[DisplacedJustis]

Wow. I mean, come on. He says that its going to be all inclusive, which means "everybody is included." Other people have a right to their opinions and it's not our place to try to change them. But If Obama wants to include everyone, then the people who hold a view other than ours needs must be also included.

[curtis]

This is really pitiful that We as the gay populous,who bitch about equality, would begrudge that to another group, the christian community. Obama does have others speaking that share our beliefs as well as Warren. Like one comment says before, he is only going to pray. For God sakes get a life and grow up, and move on. You live in a "christian country". You dont want the christians to have any say in your countrys governing then move to a non-christian country. We have to deal with them, just like they have to deal with us.

[paul lukasiak]

The more I see of Obama, the happier I am with my decision to sit out this election. As a gay man, this is a slap in the face. But Warren's position on a woman's right to choose (he's against it), torture (he's all for it), and assassinating other nation's leaders (he's for that too!) makes his selection to give the invocation a slap in my face as a human being.

Obama is confirming that he is as fraudulent as I suspected he was when he allowed his campaign to falsely accuse the Clintons of racism. He's just another hustler for wall street millionaires, just like George Bush.

[ChipInGA]

If we exepct others to respect our views, then we must also respect the rights of others that have different and yes even opposing views.

I have faith that President Obama is going to do the best job any person could possibly do at trying to bring us all together. But, he has to stand up for ALL Americans rights, not just ours.

Rev. Lowery will be an excellent counterbalance to Warren. I'm betting Warren will wish he would have found something better to do that day. I pray the Rev. Lowery will deliver, as I know he can. May God bless, keep and guide him.

I'm a 64 year old Gay, White, Male. I have never been so excited about the prospects for our Community,and our Country.

Oh, and by the way, Don't Ask Don't Tell, sure as hell was alot better than what we had. Sometimes you have to crawl a little before you can walk.

[Doyle]

Here we go again! Rolling my eyes....
Where is the "tolerance" we gays have been proporting for the longest time? We only want to tolerate only those who agree with the gay far left agenda? Remember, Obama does NOT support gay marriage either! I don't hear anyone saying anything about him. So what he gave us lip service saying he was against prop 8, but did he campaign for it? NO! Rick Warren is friendly to gays, has gay friends and has been one of the biggest supporters of AIDS and HIV causes. His church has given more than most likely any other evangelical church. GROW UP! Not everyone is going to agree with us, so WHAT! Use your energy to build relationships with those you don't agree with instead of pissing them off. Building bridges is more successful than burning them.

[Queerplanet]

The people who say this is brilliant, that to appease the people who hate us is totally awesome politics, well....

all I can say is you're fucked up in the head.

This sends a clear message that Obama has no intention of defending civil rights for gay people.

Just like his cabinet... filled with Republicans, warmongers, corporate lobbyists and more of the same.

Gee, fooled again. He's pulled a Clinton on us. Wow, big surprise.

Next time, don't vote for the lesser of two evils people. There are, were, will be third party candidates.