The Vatican's "grotesque" stand

As the United Nations prepares to receive a resolution urging more than 75 member nations to decriminalize homosexuality, the Vatican rears its well-coiffed head against the plan. 

The Vatican's permanent observer to the UN told Reuters that the Holy See will oppose the resolution, which France is set to propose this month on behalf of and by unanimous consent of the 27-member European Union.

The reasoning: The Vatican fears ending penalties for gayness will lead to same-sex marriage. Countries that don't let gays wed "will be pilloried and made an object of pressure," and we can't have that.

Because while Europe and the Americas trend -- however slowly and erratically they may seem -- toward equality, the picture in the rest of the world is very different. African governments have actually stepped up their persecution, with the latest, Burundi, moving to impose criminal penalties on gayness just last week.

During the same few years, hundreds of accused gays have been executed in Iran, Sudan and other countries that observe Islamic law.

Anti-equality Americans who swear fealty to anti-gay foreign religious leaders like Anglican Peter Akinola of Nigeria give a powerful endorsement to the home country's hate, however much they may deny it.

It will be interesting to see how the United States votes on this one. As recently as 2006, the U.S. aligned with countries like Iran on gay issues, initially denying UN consultative status to LGBT organizations.      

Comments

[obama bin lyin']

This article is so false, the Vatican doesn't support killing gays, leave it to the idiot authors on gay.com to make such insane claims as that. Besides, you can't expect any religious group to support homosexuality it goes against every religion's beliefs, it's like expecting gays to support Conservatives...will never happen.

[Dave Saunders]

Just the ridiculous false name ("obama bin lyin") of the person posting the previous entry says it all: he is lying. The article doesn't say that the Vatican approves of killing anyone; what it says is that the Vatican opposes decriminalization of "gayness". Just as the Catholic Hierarchy in the US opposed the Supreme Court ruling that overturned the notorious Bowers v. Hardwick decision, striking down "sodomy laws", or the much earlier decisions regarding decriminalization of birth control (yes, birth control: I'm not talking about abortion, I'm talking about condoms, "the pill", and even vasectomy!), the church opposes any kind of equal rights for gay people. The Catholic church's stand on these matters is only slightly more modern that the Islamic advocates of Sharia. These are facts and you can verify them by reading the Vatican pronouncements directly.

[Daniel]

To the previous post signed by "obama bin lyin" did you read the same article as I? There seemed to be passing mention of how in some Islamic countries gays have been put to death. Where did you get from the article that anyone was suggesting that the Vatican supports killing gays? It just says that the Vatican is opposed to the resolution to decriminalize homosexuality in the 75 countries. If I understand your motive for your signature I guess you are one of those idiots who can't let go of the election not going your way. You sound like a very unpleasant complainer.

[corrective_unconscious]

Only the talibangelical elements of religions spread homophobia these days; it's the exact opposite of "homosexuality goes against every religion's beliefs." Besides, we live in a secular society; it doesn't matter what a few sick creeps like James Dobson or the Pope or Pee Wee Herman lookalike, Raymond Arroyo, think.

The self hating, closet case trolls like "AirForce" or the one above need to stop inserting their Linda Blair dolls up their assholes and then posting here as part of their "reparative therapy," as it's not helping their grip on reality.

[ray]

lets all remeber the important part of this article...an opprotunity to decriminalize homosexuality in over 75 nations. the setbacks gay rights have recentlty had in the us are terrible, but to live in a country where homosexuality is illegal is worse. i recently spent two years living in zambia. while i was there i met a small group of gay men who were brave enough to assist with a cdc study trying to determine the % of msm's who access hiv/aids healthcare. there were many unfortunate aspects to these mens lives and what i found most troubling was the level of promiscuity between them in such a small circle. no chance for a relationship that their society would accept or true love, and potentially terrible consequences in a country with a 14% hiv infection rate. while we may not have the rights we deserve here, at least there are not laws that could land us in jail for having sex with someone we love, or frankly as is our right, just someone we want to have sex with. if you pray, pray that love wins. if you dont pray, keep your fingers crossed. and save a place in your heart for those with less rights than yourself.

[Dumbass0or0not]

Blacks would have voted for Colin Powell if he was running on the republican ticket, they would have voted for Jessee Jackson if he was running independent. WHY does it surprise ANYONE that "Obama-Bin'-Lyin'" got the Democratic nomination instead of Hillary. Let's see what other idiocy orrises in the next 4 years since Obama's church was so hushed during the campagin. He is nothing but a carpet bager.

[Daniel]

What does this discussion have to do with Obama besides the nut using his name as a snide signature. You people really show your hate. Lets get back on topic Dumbass0or0not or perhaps you are indeed "obama bin lyin" with new signature??? From your own words it seems the problem is that he is Black and that Black people voted for him (a lot of non Blacks voted for him too believe it or not). Your true colors are showing. I would never make a sweeping statement but can anyone deny what many people who can't seem to get over his victory are most angry about. I will shut up now since I have now gone off topic too. You pushed me to it. The article is however about the Vatican's opposition to a resolution to decriminalize homosexuality in 75 countries so could we comment on that instead of making opportunities to jab at Obama? I'm not and can't censure anyone's comments, just pointing out how jabbing at Obama has nothing to do with the article at hand.

[Paul Anthony Ward]

I think there seems to be a breakdown of communication...

It isn´t fair to state that one is either a country that trends towards equality (ie countries that allow Gay-Marriage) or a Burundi or an Iran (evidentally everyone else)...

One may legitimately oppose gay marriage without being accused of hating gay people or without being equated to Saudi Arabia & Iran, which this article rather unfairly, albeit subtly, attempting to do...

The Church condemns unjust discrimination based on sexual orientation but does oppose gay marriage...

A dualism between Pro-Gay-Marriage/ Pro-Gay & Anti-Gay-Marriage/ Anti-Gay...
This is unfair...

And Gay.com, can we keep the articles mature?
"well-coiffed head"...?
Is that really necessary?

[Kathleen]

It saddens me to see that influential religious leaders would rather allow the extremist groups of this world to legislate and criminilize adult sexual behavior, all in the name of preventing a 'trend' towards same-sex marriage. I think we get it--marriage is sacred to the Catholic church. Well, maybe to the Vatican and maybe in theory to the general public, but I wonder if the vatican ever considered making adultry a criminal action, simply to prevent divorce? In some countries there are serious consequences for divorce still, so why is the Vatican not addressing that issue? Because heterosexuality is 'normal' that's why. I wonder if the laws of the world that can have a woman stoned to death or imprisioned for life for being raped have ever been considered effective by the Vatican of preventing promiscuity? I am not Catholic and am not interested in ever being one, but I would love to sit down with the Pope and see what he has to say about that kind of logic. I'm sure I couldn't change his mind, but as smart as he is portrayed to be, I'm wondering what he might think.

[Barbara Wilcox]

Paul Anthony Ward, the church is failing to condemn unjust discrimination based on sexual orientation, and that's the whole problem. I can't think of anything more discriminatory than throwing people in jail for behavior that would be fine if they were heterosexual.

Plus, the alleged "criminals" in countries like these are not living in some vacuum of gayness. They are sons, partners, workers, breadwinners of families that suffer when their income is lost. Human rights, anyone?

[the_real_sweedie]

Surprise surprise, the vatican is against gayness. This is the same people that all of a sudden took away purgatory for some reason, it does not exist anymore in the catholic faith. How one can just change a religion like that is above my head, but if one can change that fact, then one can change the fact that gayness is considered a sin and be a little more humane and up to date.

The funniest thing is that most priests (and higher ups) that get caught molesting little church boys comes from this religion. Way to go, you become a catholic to hide your homosexuality, but it finally boils over and you go to prison for touching boys inappropriately. But since you're catholic you can just confess your sins and be forgiven... So forgive me father for I have sinned, last night I took a dick in my ass and it felt great, I'll probably do it again tonight, so I'll see you tomorrow at noon. Oh, what's that? You wanna come too?

[M81]

Everytime the Catholic church says something publicly they always come off sounding stupid. This corrupt, flithy rich, power hungry organization should have been wiped out centuries ago. It amazes me that there are practicing Catholics out there. Its a business currently operated by a man who was part of the Youths for Hilter movement as a teenager, and who is known for protecting members of the Church who molested children. Or how about their neutral stance on WWII, or their support of the Crusades. How about being able to buy yourself out of sin, keeping the masses ignorant by doing services in Latin and only offering copies of the Bible in latin so no one could read it. How about fear mongering, how about the Inqusitions? They are in the business of control and power and always have been. Did anyone here know that they have so much wealth that they could feed, house, and clothe every man, woman, and child on the planet? Yes the planet!

This business goes way beyond gay rights, its about how completely horrible these people are. They all sit there is their private City State doing nothing to help this world whatsoever, except collect as much money as they possibly can.

So anything the Church has to say, well, they need to keep it to themselves.

[corrective_unconscious]

holy, self hating dweeb > The Church condemns unjust discrimination based on sexual orientation but does oppose gay marriage...

The bigoted, defaming Church hierarchy causes untold psychological harm to the less steely among us with its insane, virulent pronouncements about intrinsic moral disorders and other such blatant hatred.

The Churches sick policies on human sexuality in general also attracted a higher percentage of sexually sick men into its clergy - as you would expect, like attracts like - with about three billion dollars of misery to follow. And counting.

And there's no good secular or other reason to bar marriage equality, or, for that matter, to bar women from the clergy. Those who oppose marriage equality are hateful homophobes...even though not many of them would ever admit that to themselves or others.

So get back to your homersechual "reparations" therapy class, you clown.

[roger allen]

All the statistical facts are now in and dispassionatel indicate that many "people of color" just do not get it.....yet. It comes from a
discredited and irrational belief system based in bias, denial, frenzied emotion, and a certain level of intellectual
dishonestly. Don't call it "religious beliefs," unless you
also agree with all the other racists and bigots....it's the SAME SHIT IN A DIFFERENT WRAPPER. How do I know? I am a black, gay man who was formerly a Mormon. Hate is hate,
regardless of color, theology, or
rationalization. And would you want
all your closeted gay friends and
relatives to suffer from your ignorance? I think not.

[Daniel]

I'm sorry Roger but, what? I read your paragraph and I have no idea of the point you are making.

[Kathleen]

M81, as much as I dislike how the Catholic church distorts what I know of Christianity, and how much hypocrisy I believe is within the Catholic church, I have to disagree with what you say about their use of their wealth. Whatever their motivation, whether true Christ-like behavior or self-serving grandstanding, they do indeed help people who are homeless, hungry and generally in need. I was one of those who was in need and they were there when no one else seemed to be. But all of that aside, I'm in 100% agreement that their stance on this issue of decriminalizing homosexuality in the world is totally wrong and against all I know of true Christianity.

[queerplanet]

Christians, Jews, Muslims of the world listen up.

Your days are numbered.

This is why your churchs, mosques and temples are losing people.

The Pope is a lying, greedy warmonger who covers himself in Prada while financially supporting dictatorships, environmentall toxic companies, and pedophiles.

His counterparts in Islam and Judaism are easy to find.

It's time to isolate these freaks and stop giving them tax breaks.

Stop pandering to their superstitions.

Stop accepting that they have any authority from a divine power.

They are simply greedy, powerful human being.

[queerplanet]

Oh and Obama has been Lyin!!!

He just assembled a cabinet of war mongers, oil executives, medical industry lackies and right wing idealogues.

Pay attention darlings.

All is not well in the USA.

[Dermo]

Hmmmmmmm seldom see these Liberals having a go at Islam, which specifically calls for gay men to be killed, wonder why, nothing to do with the Catholic church being an easy target?
Really believe in Gay rights?
Go to Mecca and give it a go
Maybe its a similar reason why you never see animal rights people throwing paint over hells angels

[D_Ruin]

The Vatican is a dying institution anyhow. this was made clear and bold when, before his death, the last pope addressed the issue of contraceptives and their use in africa, and said it was against gods will for them to be used. he said this to an entire continent of people dying daily from AIDS. they are out of touch with what is going on in the world and the only governments paying any attention to the vatican are those who are not serving the people they represent in the first place. what the vatican is to the world is what the Queen is to England and Canada, a well maintained, and uber rich figure head with very little, if any, power. and what of all the small boys and girls being molested by so called priests? they dont want to talk about that, yet they are quick to point the finger to other 'sinners'...me thinks they doth protest too much. let them spin their wheels and spout whatever they want to spout, progress will happen, with or without the religious right.

[Dermo]

Yes condoms in Africa.
100% guarantee that when the soldiers carrying European/Chinese/American arms, usually sponsored by the local friendly multinational oil company answerable only to shareholders who usually dont know/where care their dividends come from sweep through and gang rape all around them, they will stop to rubber up
That pony is well whipped, try be original will ya?

[ducdebrabant]

Those who are defending the Church here must face the fact that countries which criminalize homosexuality penalize it with death and castration at the high end and nothing less than imprisonment at the low end. If the Church doesn't want gays killed, it's only because it doesn't support capital punishment, but while gays are being killed, the Church certainly isn't doing a thing to stop it. And if execution seems excessive to the Vatican, then what penalty do they want imposed? A Nigerian prison?

And if they want homosexuality to remain criminalized where it already is, they presumably want it criminalized where it is not. When are they going to build on this position and demand that European countries start locking up gays again?

And they say voting for Obama is a sin. I'm starting to think going to Mass is a sin. How can any Catholic, however devout, defend this monstrousness?

[Daniel_NwMO]

I am tried of reading anti-gay individuals and organizations getting away with saying GLBT people are not entitled to "special" rights because gayness is something we do not who we are. Going to church is something you do not who you are. After going to a Roman Catholic seminary I chose to leave the church. I did not leave my rights on the church steps. The Catholic Church does not want my partner of sixteen years and me to marry in one of their churches, fine. But why can’t my stuff go to my partner if
I die first, why can’t I be covered by his insurance while I’m in grad school, and so on? Keep your church out of my relationship, and I'll keep my relationship out of your church. And I'll just keep going to the UCC, Where we are wanted.

[Rick]

Maybe it's time religious organizations are held accountable for the death and destruction they cause throughout the world. Instead we give them tax breaks to promote hate and intolerance. I don't think that's what God had in mind.

[tim630]

We all believe in the concept of God in our own way. Religion is a very personal thing and should not be pushed on any individual. Maybe this has been the problem all along. So many people PUSH their views on others. Acting all self righteous and saintly when in fact many have the same feelings as out homosexuals do but, are too cowardly to admit their feelings. You see it in the news all the time where the most steadfast opponents of anything homosexual speak out and later down the road, the truth comes out and they actually do have the same feelings as other gays. I’m not speaking of “coming out of the closet” but admitting they “internally” feel the same way and are open to the idea of homosexuality. The Catholic Church seems to NOT practice what they preach by coming out against homosexuality. I know I can’t help being who I am and I know in my heart God made me this way. Who is ANYONE-even a Pope- to tell me otherwise. Unless you’re on speed dial with the Almighty, let’s all accept and treat the others the way WE expect to be treated. Gay marriage is not an abomination to the sanctification of man-woman relationships and should not even be viewed as a threat. We deserve the same rights as everyone else –especially in America- to live free and the way we choose. After all, there is something called a “Bill of Rights” and “Constitution” which allows Americans to strive for the ideals of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. After all, being gay is my right as an American –not that I have a choice in the matter- and according to the founding principals of the “constitution” and “Bill of Rights” I do have that right. Otherwise, these two documents that were the founding principals of our country are noting more than junk mail, but from the 1700’s. I have no plans on getting married to a man in the near future, but if I want to, I should be able to. The Vatican should be ashamed at them selves for being nothing but wealthy hypocrites in a closed click or what some view now as a cult seeking out only monetary gain to support their Holy city filled with priceless artwork and antiquities (much of it stolen or confiscated) from around the word. The Vatican needs to stop suppressing and start accepting through love and understanding. So, stop judging me and fix the HUGE problem in your own house. Many priests out there should know what I mean by that statement.

[Tim M]

Somebody wrote:

'The article doesn't say that the Vatican approves of killing anyone; what it says is that the Vatican opposes decriminalization of "gayness". '

And in that, the article is incorrect.

The Church does not oppose decriminalization of homosexuality, and in no way supports violence against homosexuals.

They're wrong on the issue of gay marriage. Why can't people leave it at that, rather than trying to make something more out of it?

'Father Lombardi said that "obviously nobody wants to defend the death penalty for homosexuals."

The church supports fundamental human rights and opposes every form of "unjust discrimination" which includes "not just the death penalty, but all violent or discriminatory criminal laws against homosexuals," he said in a commentary on Vatican Radio Dec. 1.'

[corrective_unconscious]

the sinner via lying > The Church does not oppose decriminalization of homosexuality, and in no way supports violence against homosexuals....They're wrong on the issue of gay marriage. Why can't people leave it at that, rather than trying to make something more out of it?

The homophobic church has defamed gays and lesbians for centuries. What do you mean the church merely is wrong on the issue of marriage equality? They won't allow gay clergy (let alone women,) and they rave on and on in their fine dresses and flaming purses about "intrinsic moral evil." Why don't you get some therapy for your brainwashing?

But more than the homophobic invective coming from the church, the church is always actively working to impede gay and lesbian rights in the US, not merely in terms of preventing marriage equality. Maybe we should work for laws saying Catholics and Mormons can be fired just for on that basis, or that Catholics can't adopt children, or that Mormons can't marry whom they wish.

Then we'd see for how long morons like you would be whining, "why can't you just leave [any criticism of anti Catholic pogroms] at that and move on." Liar.

[the_real_sweedie]

Tim M

Bah, what type of fantasy world are you living in? The Vatican and the Pope have been against homosexuality since the beginning of time (wait, they weren't around back then, but from when they think time begun at least), they think we are sinners that will burn in hell and rape their children before we do so (Ironically Catholic priests are pretty common practitioners of the latter).

It seems as if you're in denial of how badly they actually want us gone and/or suppressed, probably since you grew up in a catholic, or at least christian, home. Brainwashing starts at birth you know...

[oldkingtroll]

The Vatican's logic is perverse. They want to keep something criminal for fear that its decriminalization will lead to marriage equality. That is simply too ridiculous for words.

The Vatican should deal with the issue at hand: Does it really think that homosexuality should be criminalized? If so, they should provide a rational as to why homosexuality is -- in and of itself -- wrong, evil or something that (like say murder) merits criminal sanctions.

[Dermo]

Still no ome taking a pop at Islam, easy targets any one?
With rights come responsabilities, those my dear people take courage.

[IcarusX555X]

"Vatican spokesman Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi said unjust forms of discrimination against homosexuals must be avoided."

"Unjust forms" of discrimination against homosexuals must be avoided?

You mean there can be "just forms" of discrimination against homosexuals???

"France, which holds the rotating presidency of the EU, plans to present the proposal on the 60th anniversary of the U.N.'s Universal Declaration of Human Rights in the hope that U.N. member states will make a nonbinding declaration to decriminalize homosexuality."

So... let me get this straight... all this fuss from the Vatican over a "nonbinding" declaration. It's nonbinding you jerks!

[the_real_sweedie]

Dermo

I could take numerous stabs at Islam, but the article is about the vatican and the catholic church, so why change the subject? Just because someone else does something wrong doesn't justify your wrongdoing.
Point your fingers all you want, the catholic church is just as bad as Islam when it comes to gay rights.
Typical of you people to try and put the blame on someone else when shit hits the fan.

[corrective_unconscious]

Idiot bleated, "Still no ome taking a pop at Islam, easy targets any one?
With rights come responsabilities, those my dear people take courage."

Just to make you happy: Fuck the talibangelical bigots of all religions. Unfortunately here in the US the actual, problem bigots regarding gay rights are primarily xstain talibangelicals, not jewish or muslim talibangelicals.

Also, the catholic church is the one trying to claim they are not homophobes while officially trying to preserve homophobic pogroms about the globe. At least anti gay Muslims aren't hypocrites about their bigotry.

[lies]

Even if it was in his youth I think the the church took a turn that's very grave in selecting an X-nazi to be pope. Nazis killed jew, gays and if you didn't here Catholics too!!!
As the largest church and religion in the world Catholics really need to make sure they are 100% free of ethinic and minority extermination. The new pope is an embarasment. I am a proud catholic, minority and gay. Just like humans, the church has never been perfect but for the first time in my life I am embarrased. At least durring WWII the Roman Catholic church was against Nazis but what has happened today??? Although Juan Paul was conservative at least he preached love and unity. This new Nazi is nothing more then the devil it's self hidden in side the church. I pray there is a new pope soon. Not only for gays but any ethnic groups that was exterminated by the Nazis. His word that he preaches proves he is not of love but of hate the nazis taught him. I don't beleive he really renounced his roots.

[SteveMD2]

The pope gave his tacit approval if not encouragement to nations that murder gays or jail them etc. Of course we must remember that he grew up in nazi germany.

He is only one step away from supporting a 'final solution'. Someone should take this guy and put him in an asylum. That he said what he said shows extremism of the worst order. From the people who talk about "life". Hypocrite hardly describes the heirarchy and leader of this 'church' We'll stand by our gay friends any day, and all self respecting Catholics should demand Benedicts removal, and stop going to this church or supporting it financially. If you are Catholic, then you and all decent people should demand excommunication. It would be an honor for me if I was part of this organization.

It is almost like the pope didn't learn anything from WWII. Or did he learn the wrong thing. The extreme case of what he will do to keep power over a big segment of humanity. All in the name of power, machoism, and male dominance. And this church has proven once again that they have nothing to do with God, and are in fact the face of the Devil itself.

And of course some of this is done to further deflect the churches latest greatest crime. Creating a whole group of perverts with their puritanical attitudes about sex, that led to the crimes committed against youth, male and female, entrusted to them. And then, on top of it, they hid and moved these priestly perverts from parish to parish, hiding them and allowing them to continue their crimes. All to prevent the world from realizing the truth about this 'institution'.