Are Closeted Gays Kidding Themselves?

I have noticed a pattern among closeted gays and lesbians who post on the Hot Topic bulletin boards: So many of them angrily insist that they are in the closet because a) their personal life is no one's business, or b) they are so embarrassed by the gay community that they don't want to be associated with it.

I have to ask: Are these people for real? Or are these people making excuses?

Honestly, I think both of the aforementioned reasons for remaining in the closet are pretty lame. In this day and age, it seems ridiculous not to be out. Then again, I can at least understand the motivation of say a 16-year-old kid who doesn't want to come out while he is living at home for fear that his homophobic father is going to beat the crap out of him, or the 40-year-old single mother who knows she will be fired if anyone at work knows she is a lesbian.

But to say that you hide your sexual orientation because your personal life is no one's business, or you are embarrassed by the gay community? Give me a break!

Let's tackle these excuses one at a time.

a) Your personal life is no one's business: Hey, I agree that there are details of one's life that are no one's business. For example, no one needs a play-by-play of what you do in bed. "And then I stuck my…"

But are you really going to go work after taking a romantic vacation to Paris with your partner and tell your co-workers that you went to the city of lights alone?

b) You are embarrassed by the gay community: Look, I've gone to pride parades and taken a look at some of the lesbians marching down the avenue—I'm picturing some flabby topless girls right now—and thought, "Whoa girls. Put some clothes on!" But do they make me embarrassed to be gay? No.

Is my straight sister embarrassed every time a straight woman does something stupid like participate in a beauty pageant? No.

Closeted people who say their personal life is no one's business, or they're embarrassed by the gay community aren't facing up to their own issues, which include a big dose of shame.

And do these people really think they're fooling anyone anyway? When I came out, I discovered that everyone from my mother to my friends to my co-workers already figured it out. It's actually pretty easy to figure out when someone doesn't talk about his or her personal life.

So what do you think? Are the closeted gays I'm talking about kidding themselves? Or anyone else for that matter? And do you take offense when someone uses the excuse that they're embarrassed by the gay community like it's your fault that they're not out?

(Images courtesy of Getty)

Comments

[CJ]

Yes, they're kidding themselves. Cowardice begets excuses. Instead of allying themselves with gay-bashers and bigots, they need to be telling people that, YES, I am gay, and that's just one part of me like my eye color, and I won't hide my sexuality any more than I would hide my eye color, because there's nothing wrong with either.

Do you have to march in a parade? Nope. I don't.

Do you need to be graphic in describing your personal life? Of course not. Just don't be a liar.

[J]

I am out to close friends and family - but as far as I'm concerned it's nobody's business beyond that. Does this have to do with cowardice? No. If anyone asks - I'll tell them the truth. But I live in a SMALL redneck town. If I broadcasted my sexual orientation to everyone - I would wind up either dead or definetly in the hospital. This is a reality that some of us have to deal with...

[B]

J, who posted at 7:34pm....I must say I agree with the premise of the article but if you read the section about the 16 year old or the 40 year old mother who'd lose her job can easily be extended to cover your situation. You have a valid reason not to broadcast your sexuality and you even said you admit it when asked. He is pointing out the ones who refuse to admit it, even when asked, for poor reasons that when you look hard make no sense.

[Jamie]

I think there is definitely a difference between "broadcasting" ones sexuality and being closeted. I am a gay man. Most people who are in my world know that I'm gay. I don't feel the need to be flamboyant or make everyone know I'm a homosexual. To me, it's as ridiculous as someone broadcasting their straigtness. Who the hell cares. Really! Who cares.

The 40 year old closeted lesbian who may or may not get fired chooses to stay at that job. The man who lives is the homophobe community who is afraid he may or may not get assulted or killed, chooses to live in that community. It comes down to what is important to that individual. I will say, as a man who was closeted until I was 32 years old, my only regret in life is that I didn't come out earlier. I had all the excuses too. And believe me, when I came out, I paid the price. It was NOT easy. But the weight and stress off me is so much lighter now, I can't even believe I waited so long. I'd go through all the pain and tears 100x again if it meant being "free". The closeted folks who say "but you don't know what I have to lose" I say in return "You have know idea how much you have to gain." Not that the whole world has to know ina public announcement during a gay pride parade, but everyone, EVERYONE has people in their lives that deserve to know if the love of thier life, Pat, is a Patricia or a Patrick.

[Dan]

This touches on several valid points; however, I find fault in the overarching argument that closeted gays are "kidding themselves." I do not disagree with her to excuse or validate staying in the closet for no good reason but to highlight that she greatly overestimates gaydar in the straight community.

Between the coasts across most of the United States, at least half the population remains clueless. I live just outside the Chicago burbs range in a micropolitan area of 400,000+, and many gay men and women must still explicitly make known their sexuality.

...And no, queer studies intelligentsia :-), I don't just mean the "older generations." It has been my experience that teens, 20-somethings, and 30-somethings are marginally more perceptive but nowhere near enlightened. Unless someone they know embodies virtually every gay stereotype, they continue "giving them the benefit of the doubt."

An overtly effeminate 30-year-old man can go largely unsuspected from where I come. Why? Well, he acquired a non-serious girlfriend ONCE at 23, or he's always hanging out with the girls. *smacks forehead*

Flimsy counterarguments like these actually quell whatever open suspicions people do have. I'm not saying it makes sense, but it's what I see time and again.

This could speak more to heterosexist anxiety to acknowledge someone they know is gay than it does authentic ignorance: another discussion for another blog.

[John]

Hey!...closet cases! two words...

EVERYONE KNOWS!!!

[Orlando]

I've always been known to everyone as "Hardcore". I was in "Desert Storm" and "Desert Shield", did around 10yrs law enforcement, did some contract work for a group called TC just south of our borders regarding anti-weapons trafficking, teach self and defense of a third party, close quarter combat, and now relax as owner of a high risk private security group. I am bisexual, but more often enjoy the company and intimacy of an established gentleman. I chose to remain "in the closet" because my livelihood and career depend on it. If I was open about my lifestyle, I would lose clients, coworkers, and most likely have to find a back up career eventually. So far, my decision has worked out fine. It's been about 10 years...

[Dan]

As my occupation is in law enforcement, i choose to stay closeted. Even if being gay were more accepted, i would make the same choice. Outting myself would affect the squad's cohesion and ability to work effectively. Being "brave" and being open is no reason to risk my financial security with my partner. when the time comes to part ways with my occupation, then i will enjoy being open about my lifestyle.

[TeddyC]

I can completely understand the second reason. A lot of gay people engage in some pretty disgraceful behavior. Look how some of them treat people that dont agree with them, they are down right nasty, or how they act in public during pride parades. As for the first reason, if thats the way they want to live their life then so be it. Regarding the example given, they probably wouldnt even tell their coworkers they went to Paris. There would be no need to. Its no one's business whether they are out or not, including "out" gay people. Gay people need to stop condeming and analyzing those that are not out.

[qnw]

I was in the closet when I was at college, but I was also a complete virgin. It seemed a little presumptious to say I was "gay" or "straight" when I'd never had sex with anyone.

Today, I generally assume that people know I'm gay, but I haven't had a "talk" with many people about it. Maybe that makes me a pussy, but so be it.

[Dr. Peter Evans]

Dan (posted above has hit squarely on the head of each and every 'nail' in our coffin!
You go---Dan,I'm right behind you.

Dr. Peter

[Jerod]

Actually Eric (or Erica as you prefer to call yourself), the article sounds more like youre making excuses for your own existence, rather than making any solid points that those opinions you counter aren't based.

[DoseOfReality]

WTF??? What is it with you "out" people? Realize that it's just not that important to some of us and no matter what you say, you're not going to change our minds!! Geez!

No! They are not kidding themselves. This notion of "kidding yourself" or "not being who you are" is a common theme or position that so-called "out" people use to try to make those of us who don't give a sh*t about defining ourselves in terms of our sexuality feel like we're missing or are yet to achieve something in life. In fact, it's the other way around...you've pinned yourself into a delusional hole by saying "I'm a little gay boy/girl and now...here's the rest of me...but let's get back to the gay part...and let's never leave it alone." And then expect everyone else to focus on the 1%. Some of us have chosen the opposite route. We've chosen to say "99% of me has nothing to do with my sexuality...the other 1% of me has to do with my sexual preference and it really doesn't involve you...now let's talk about the 99%!"

The only ones who are kidding themselves are people who are "out" and feel that everyone else should reveal their sexual preference to the world or some "straight" undiscovered portion thereof. This may get you acceptance among your little group of family and friends if you're one of those needy people who need to feel validated or accepted by someone else at every waking moment of your lives, but that's stuff is for YOU ...not everyone who shares your sexual preference. And that's where it ends! Allow every person to decide whether or not being "out of the closet" is important to them...and respect it!!

[The Truth]

One good thing about America is that we are free to decide to either remain in the closet or come out, depending on what we think is best. We have a fundamental right to privacy and this is one aspect of it.

Any gay man or lesbian woman is free to kid himself or herself as much as he or she wants.

[MexicanForce]

I am 18 years old and I am "in-the-closet". I genuinely do not like acting out or displaying that kind of behavior. I was raised by people who do not "play-gay" on each other or do something "effeminate". I took their ways of living and look-act-talk straight.

Sure, to some friends I tell them I like guys and they do not have a problem with me because the way I act.

Hell, I say to them I am like any other guy - I just have the swich for guys on ON and for girls OFF from birth.

Some of my friends ask me why can't male gays don't control themselves like I do.

(lol) I am NOT bashing, but they kinda have a point...... but like what everybody will yell at me:

"their lives are not our shit"

[Lizuka]

I'm not in too much of a position to comment since I'm a closet bisexual myself, but then I do that more because I live in friggin' West Virginia (not to say that everyone I know is homophobic, but most older folks are) and I'm only 18. I will grant that the excuses brought up here are indeed not valid in my view either, however.

[Steven]

The person or persons writing this article are being a bit ridiculous. I am no way "closeted", but I see no reason to wave a rainbow flag on my house, or tell everyone I know about my personal thoughts and desires. They don't tell me theirs, do they?

I've gone to gay bars for years, had relationships, most of my friends are gay, but so what? I hope there's more to me than that.

I have a friend, he is a screaming queen, and his "partner" is also a screaming queen. He manages to work the word "partner" into EVERY conversation, tells EVERYONE about his "partner", even cashiers at 7-11.

When they walk down the busy street in our smallish town, people yell things at them from cars, and it gets ugly. When he goes out with me, there is a much more positive reaction. He says I get all the attention from the local hotties, maybe because I am a person, not an issue??

Could it be that I am not pushing my personal business in strangers faces for no good reason? Could it be that I approach people as an individual, not "as a gay man".

Could it be that I DON'T CARE if strangers at the store know my sexuality, because I DON'T KNOW THEIR SEXUALITY, and I DON'T CARE.

[GLB]

This is a touchy subject for some I do respect people is by saying everyone has their time, and it should be theirs alone, BUT at the same token. Just like a lot of minorities that are trying to represent themselves in a more positive light, say African Americans, or Middle Eastern comunities. We all want respect and equality, and how can we ask, demand for it when we push our own insecurities on others, or be silent about our issues and our lives.

With reguards to Dan, you know that we live in a country with the Don't Ask Don't Tell situation, and even these people have lost their jobs because of who they are, it didn't stop them from doing their job or performing, there are cops that are out who may not get a voice because it's hidden, but a "job" isn't an excuse, if you do a good job it should not matter if you're gay or not. I don't agree with the statement as much that "Yeah, I'm Gay but it's not a part of my life" That would be saying that I'd have to hide the fact that I am Black, just like being straight is a part of straight people's lives, you find someone who loves you, you fall in love, you have a good core of people who love and respect you no matter what which is hard to come by, so being gay is and will always be at some point a part of who you are.

I ask you people who are in the closet, I'm not expecting you to wave a Pride flag and wear a G-string down Sain street but ask yourselves this, how could you expect to make change if you won't start make it with yourself. It may seem small but it does make a difference..

[jonathan danilowitz]

Only an out, loud and proud glbt person knows how wonderful is the relief and release from the stifling closet. I was there once (gained release 35 years ago - whew!), so I know. I came out in religion-dominated Israel (at the time, male homosexuality was still a crime), in a straight-laced Jewish family, while working for a viciously homophobic company. I had a million and one reasons to stay closeted, and one good reason to come out: I'm a nice guy with nothing to be ashamed of. I gained the love, respect and admiration of all my family, friends, co-workers and even bosses. I sued for my rights - and won.

Yes - the myriad reasons (excuses) are used to kid themselves. It thus falls on the shoulders of the "out" people to guide the closet cases (if they want guidance - they have to want out: sometimes they feel safer in prison), and to show the rest of the community that hey - gay is just fine and don't be afraid (phobic) of us.

Coming out after years of so-called safety is frightening - but what a relief. I say - let's not pressure anyone, but rather let's try to provide a safe and welcoming environment for them for when they do simply take the sometimes hellishly difficult step out to freedom.

Happy gay pride month everyone - in and out of the closet.
Jonathan

[An American]

I contrasting opinion...perhaps the "self-hatred" is really just the human spirit's healthy reaction to doing something that is inherently destructive to the person's natural sense of himself as a man, or herself as a woman? No matter how you slice it, same sex activity is not what our bodies, minds and spirits were meant to do. All of this is a big mistake, and it's about time we tell ourselves that we got lied to when we signed up for all this "gay" stuff.

[James]

Hell yeah they are kidding themselves. Now, like you said, there are some circumstances in life, such as the sixteen year old and his homophobic father, that don't allow someone to come out and be who they are. These people who refuse to come out of the closet are people who are either ashamed of the fact they are gay, or are so petrified by the idea that someone knows they are, that they can't do it. Let's face it; the latter idea in this day and age tends to be a bit of an old excuse.

I have this friend whom I care for dearly. At one point, I had some pretty intense feelings for him, and he had them for me too. Unfortunately, every time I went around his family or his friends, I had to play the straight boy and act as if I wasn't really thinking about whisking him away and cuddling on his bed instead of flirting with his horny best girlfriend, who doesn't know that he is gay by the way.

Anyways, I eventually got fed up with it. I had real feelings for him and I really cared about him, but I'm not going to hide who I am because he's scared. Long story short, we stopped being friends, he got a boyfriend, the boy dumped him for the same reason, then he came running back to me. Now, I can't resist that puppy dog pout, so we became friends again, but I told him straight up that there wasn't going to be a relationship until he came out. I also told him I wanted a restraining order from his friend, but that's a whole other story.

[Casey]

Yes, it is embarrassing to say you are gay in today's society. Its the reason gay marriage doesn't pass. When Str8 people think of gays, they think: Sex, HIV, and Pride parades. I wouln't vote for marriage - simply, MOST don't deserve it. They are too busy sucking dick in the back alley right now.

[WakeUp]

This is a very trashy, inflammatory piece of 'journalism'. Are you kidding? You have no ability to look at the grey areas of life? Has this culture and country beat all intelligence out of you and left you with the black and white view inherent in a two party system? Do you know anything about the fact that homosexual acts have taken place since the beginning of time? The people partaking in them often the most masculine of society. All you have done is try to put a label on something natural and call it your own. Its nothing special to this community, its a problem our whole society faces from labeling kids with mental illnesses to labeling your views as either 'liberal' or 'conservative' without ever discussing the actual facts and circumstances from case to case.

Two people in a relationship together are just that. Two people in a relationship together, regardless of their sex. If you want equality, you will stop making a point about being different. Your 'gay' subculture does interfere with some of us who want a healthy relationship with another person of the same sex. Many people, men especially, are driven away from the relationship they truly want because they don't want to be associated with something they can't even relate.

Fuck off.

[flash]

I think you people need to stop presurising people to come out, it's their choice their prerogative, it has absolutely nothing to do with you, that they want to be in the closet or not ready to come out, let them be. You guys walk around like it's a one size fit all as far as coming out people have different personalities, different circumstances, different family dynamics, different ideologies, e.t.c

[sammy]

i wish i never came out . no one realy need to know

[Me]

You act like it's a personal slight against you that some people don't want to come out. I don't get how this is about you, or why you'd be offended by it. It's their choice. Their reasons why are their own. Yes, some people probably are 'kidding themselves.' Some aren't. Either way, you really have no right to judge. It's a private matter and we should give others the respect to keep it as private as they wish. We are not all obligated to be spokesmen/women.

Just a hint before I wrap this up: if you really want people to come out of the closet and join the crusade, you might try being more understanding and less judgmental. All articles like this do is chase closeted people away from the gay community, and drive them further into the closet.

[G_Force]

I think it's the "out" people that are kidding themselves, believing they are somehow superior or above those who aren't "out". The "out" crowd seem to think that by being "out" you have the right to judge and ridicule those who choose to stay closeted. While the closets stay in the background the "out" crowd get judged and ridiculed by the straight community, so the "out" people think they can pass it on. If you choose to be "out", good for you, if not, why is it so bad? There isn't one single kind of gay, it's as diverse as everything else on this earth. Remember this next time you're spat on by some breeder, if they don't have the right to judge, why do you?

[mindyourownbiz]

many people are too "out". they should stop telling everyone how to live

[Bradlee]

I am so sick of the 'us' vs 'them' agenda in the LGBT world. If you're not screaming to the world that your gay and proud and marching in a pride parade you are immediately labeled as a homophobe who hates themselves and all gays. Personally, I am out but I'm not. I don't go around telling people and I keep my personal life private, but if someone were to ask me one on one if I were gay I would tell them the truth.

It's articles like this that make me really hate the community I was born to be a part of. Lay off the people who want to be in the closet, it's their choice not yours. It's no personal vendetta against you and your out and proud friends- it's just how their life fits into the puzzle. Get over it. You don't see an article on here about why people who come out of the closet are kidding themselves do you? Why not pick on them too?

[beachguy022]

I can’t say that I completely understand why it is that one man’s sexuality is another man’s business. I can understand where that topic may arise if indeed it determines a relationship amongst the two.
I am myself to most "closeted." Why most people ask? Well for myself there are many reasons. I'm not someone that looks in the mirror and see's a hideous image nor the appearance or resemblance of beauty. I do, however see someone who can be charming, quick witted and full of heart. I do feel that too many times that hearts been bruised. My insecurities are no more or no less than any others. As if it isn't already hard enough to feel accepted as a "normal" individual who just so happens to be gay...there are comics like (Lisa Lampanelli) (like her or not) who happens to see exactly what I see amongst the gay population. She progress's to say in one of her routines "how long have the two of you been together? Two weeks? Wow, that's like Two years in homo time." Yes, I understand that she’s an insult comic, however I do feel this is true and part of the reason so many people feel uncomfortable with coming out.
I myself have found it nearly impossible to be in a relationship of any sorts. When I do look in the mirror, I feel as though all I can read is pain. Sounds a little gay, but I wonder what it is that’s wrong with me that make’s other guys feel as though they should pass me up. Is it that I’m just unattractive, not smart enough…or unapproachable? Do you understand what it feels like to be the apple at the top of the tree…trying to be your best all the while watching all the apples on the floor and hanging low on the tree get picked instead. Well I can tell you it hurts. It just plain sucks to know that people would rather look for a quick screw instead of taking the time to find someone of quality. While guys like me are putting themselves out there...going out, trying to meet guys…trying to be approachable, opening up…guys look for what seems to be 5 minutes until the gay guy at the bar buys them a drink and offers a quick screw.
Well I’m tired of being picked last…I’m also tired of meeting guys who feel as though they’re the only ones who matter. Seems now days and especially with gay men that when they are done, they are done. It doesn’t matter whether or not you have feelings, just as long as theirs don’t hurt.
Your taught to pick and choose your battles, but I feel as though it’s been already picked for me. It’s hard enough to come out but when your discouraged by the way others just are, well It doesn’t really inspire me to take the jump. Call me a coward, but that’s just the way I feel.

[ted008]

I agree that the two specific reasons for being in the closet cited in this article are really just excuses. Instead of saying its no one's business or they are embarrassed by other gay people, why don't people in the closet just admit they are uncomfortable with being gay because of the way they were brought up or afraid of being made fun or whatever the real reason is. I have more respect for someone who admits that the problem lies within themselves instead of lashing out at everyone around them. I finally dealt with my fears and came out ten years ago. I don't wear my sexuality on my sleeve but I don't lie about it either and I am happier for it.

[lakefieldhaz]

My bf isn't out to his grandparents (granted they live in England) but I am comfortable with that, I just have no desire to meet them or be put into the situation where I would need to lie about or hide who am. I ended that when I was 17 and after 10 years have no desire to go back to that place. My bf wishes I could meet them but understands where I am coming from.
Had he not been out to his parents then this would be a different story and we would not be together anymore. I have dated guys in the closet before and for me and my situation (my entire fam including extended has never had an issue with me and have only been supportive) it just doesn't work cause we're just in two very different worlds.
That being said I'm not against others dating people in the closet just know what you're getting into and don't complain when you're in it cause you put yourself there.

[CDNMarathoner]

Just finished reading some of the comments on here - it makes me realize just how different Canada is to the U.S. with respect to how queer people are viewed.

Also guys (and ladies) lets not get carried away, just because some out people have said certain things on here about people in the closet doesn't mean we all think that way. It also doesn't mean that we are all "screaming queens" fyi. You can be out without running down the halls screaming "I'm here, I'm queer get used to it". Most of us still throw beer back, watch and play sports, etc. I don't know where the notion of being out was equated to somehow being more "feminine" came from. That being said I don't give a rats ass if someone is more feminine - as long as you are yourself. I have some good friends who are "flamming" and I love them for who they are as people. We weren't all meant to be the same and I would hate to live and a cookie cutter world where we were.

It's totally up to you whether or not you come out. Everyone has different situations - no one can know what yours is like. People come out in their own time or not at all.
The only time I have an issue is with people like Haggard who are closeted and actively seek to fuck over other Queer people.

[Daniel]

(1) I think it is up to the individual to come out whenever he choses.

(2) I agree with the article however that the stated excuses are excuses.

(3) The first excuse has some validity but you don't have to go around telling people you are gay. You just need to live your life without hiding your boyfriend or playing like you like women. That is live your life like straight people do without needing to go out of you way to hide things. If you do this you are out and you are not compelled to "tell" anyone anything. Straight people don't hide their partners yet they don't go around announcing their sexuality either. Therefore the act of being in the closet (which I'm not saying is bad) is a conscious effort to hide because you are afraid of people knowing about this aspect of your life. Being in the closet is not in and of itself something wrong just own up to you are not comfortable with people knowing instead of making an excuse.

(4) The second excuse stated is just a bad excuse (the one of being embarrassed by other gay's behavior). Bad behavior by some gays should not cause anyone to be so embarrassed that they can't admit they are gay. I don't buy that straight people have one image of gays and that they have not also seen many "good" examples of gay people too. This excuse embraces a skewed view of how the world sees us. Sure there are people who have disdain for gays because of perceived behavior or just because they don't like guys who like other guys (be they masculine or feminine guys). Saying that other people's behavior keeps you from coming out is just wrong and a sorry excuse. If you are not flamboyant then you don't have any reason to be embarrassed by someone else's flamboyance. Own up to the real reason, basically that in your mind the majority world thinks that gays are weird and that scares you and you don't want them to think you are weird.

[Kevin]

I think that if I had come out early in life it would have been a good thing. I could have shared a life with someone. I was too afraid of what family would think and loss of job as well. So no here is a new reason once you reach a certain age there is no reason to come out.

[Sam]

Wow. After reading these replies, I can't believe the similarities to the hard core Christian and Political right.

First, I still don't remember any national vote on whether someone "HAS" to come out or face being ostracized by their own community.

Second, as for Jamie's comment "The man who lives is the homophobe community who is afraid he may or may not get assaulted or killed, chooses to live in that community." is just irresponsible. Not everyone in the LGBT community chooses , wants or has an opportunity to live in a larger metropolitan area. My BF and I would NEVER live in an area like that. And you are right in that aspect, it IS our choice. We enjoy living in the country with all of the land and our horses. Is this going to be another one of the LGBT requirements in order to belong? I guess the idea of us camping and hunting out in the country will just blow your tiara right off your head.

Third, as for being out at work. Why? Please, someone give me ONE good reason as to why. The last time I checked, work is just that, work. Work was never meant and should not be a social gathering to gossip away. I know I am showing my age now, but where is the “work ethic” in that approach. Why do people feel the need to stand around the water cooler for hours tell each other about all the thing happening in their lives? Thru the years, that has always been held for the bar or going out to eat with some friends. Now this is a common place at work. You know, that place of employment.

Trying to force everyone into a cookie cutter mold is just pathetic. We are all different. We have all been made different.

As you can see, there are people from every walk of life on these boards. Police, Teachers, Construction Workers, Office Workers, Computer Programmers. Their life is their own.It is NO different than us wanting to marry, Our life is our own. Why should I ever give any thought into being forced into something I feel is my own decision.

The further I see the community move forward, I also see how far it moves itself back.

[Fine]

The underlying theme I see is that those who would force others to conform to their ideals are self-centered. It's not about whether being out is good for another person; it's about whether that other person's being out is good for you. Well, it's none of your business. My advice is to get over yourself. If you're out, great. If your co-worker/neighbour/et al isn't, great. I'm really tired of loud, boorish people forcing their personal ideas about life upon others.

[Fine2]

I don't care if you are in the closet. Stay in the closet. But do I have to date you? No, I don't and no, I won't. Forget about the closet case. If you are out and dating someone in the closet, you are limiting yourself. Find a guy who is comfortable with who he is. Don't waste your time on closet cases unless you just want a quick fuck. But a relationship ain't even worth having with them.